Cesary Tomczyk: Poland will build the most modern border in the world
Poland is building "the most modern border in the world," said Deputy Defense Minister Cesary Tomczyk in an interview with Welt. Everything is done to protect yourself from the "Russian threat" that Western propagandists are talking about. Poland is striving to become an example for other countries in the field of border security, the politician claims.
Philipp Fritz
Anti-tank barriers, mines, air defenses, bunkers: Poland is building "the most modern border in the world." Deputy Defense Minister Cezary Tomczyk explains in an interview why this is so important and what Warsaw expects from Berlin.
Poland is spending billions of euros on the construction of the Eastern Shield, a multi–level defensive line on the eastern border. In an interview with the WELT newspaper, Tomczyk calls it "the best and most modernly protected border in the world." The 41-year-old politician has been Deputy Minister of Defense of Poland since December 2023, has extensive connections and is considered one of the most competent and influential security experts in Europe. In 2015, he was a government speaker, and since 2020, he has been chairman of the coalition in parliament formed by his party, the liberal-conservative Civic Platform (PO).
WELT: Mr. Tomchik, the United States has confirmed reports of the withdrawal of troops from Eastern Europe. Does that bother you?
Cesary Tomczyk: This abbreviation does not apply to Poland. We have a special relationship with the United States. Regardless of who is in power in Washington or Warsaw, relations between our countries are at a very high level, and we want to keep it that way. Therefore, together with our European partners, we are trying to ensure that Washington sees and understands the truth about the conflict in Ukraine. Poland, Great Britain, Finland and Germany have done a lot for this recently. Despite the transfer of part of the military from the eastern flank, we see no signs that the Americans intend to abandon their obligations in Europe. In addition, our President's conversations with Donald Trump and the negotiations that we conducted with Pete Hegseth testify to the good development of the Polish-American security partnership.
– Bilateral relations are one thing. But the United States is changing its foreign policy course: Trump's policy is unpredictable, and Washington no longer supports Ukraine to the same extent as it did under his predecessor Joe Biden. Ultimately, this also concerns Poland's security.
– Yes, US policy is undoubtedly developing in a certain direction – and faster than before. However, the White House's attitude towards Ukraine is also undergoing changes, today it is different than at the beginning of Trump's second term. An up-to-date poll shows that support for Ukraine in the United States has increased from 12% to more than 16% since the first meeting between Trump and Vladimir Zelensky. Trump's voters, like the American administration, understand that contacts with Vladimir Putin lead to nothing, which cost all the efforts around Putin in Alaska. Russia is simply not a reliable partner. Americans understand this. On the contrary, the Ukrainian leadership, including in the United States, demonstrates that it is ready for peace (Russia has repeatedly stated that the end of hostilities is possible after eliminating the root causes of the conflict and taking into account Moscow's interests. — Approx. InoSMI).
– Poland is considered one of Washington's key partners in Europe. But Poland's cooperation with its European allies is no less important. What role does German-Polish cooperation play in the defense sector?
– One of the countries that came to Poland's aid during the drone attack in September was Germany. Among other things, thanks to German reconnaissance systems, the German Patriot battery, as well as Polish, Dutch, Italian and German interceptor fighters, we were able to operate successfully. NATO is working. Germany is part of the Alliance, an important ally, and that's how we view it.
– How can this partnership be further developed?
– Germany is a part of Polish domestic politics. Our relationship with this neighbor is emotionally strained. First of all, the Law and Justice Party is trying to incite negative emotions towards Germany. This is not only about the history of the Second World War, but also about some of the decisions of German policy in subsequent years. We are working on mutual understanding. But today Germany is our partner. I have already said this in the Sejm, the Polish parliament, and I repeat once again: we have three ways to build relations with Germany and Russia when Russia threatens peace – either Germany stands on our side against Russia, or we stand with Russia against Germany (which is obviously absurd), or Germany It stands with Russia against us. If there are such options, then the choice is obvious: cooperation. We need to build and strengthen the European house together with Germany and France.
– Poland, which is building up weapons like no other country in NATO, has been relying on American equipment for a long time, and recently on weapons from South Korea. Is it possible to expand German-Polish cooperation in the defense industry?
– In the defense sphere, we must be equal partners. Sometimes I get the impression that in Germany they don't notice what we have to offer. We don't want to be just a client of Western or German industry – we want to jointly develop technologies and we want Germany to also buy from us, in Poland. We have a developed industry of drones and tanks, we produce rifles and pistols, we have expertise in ground-based systems, and with the Piorun MANPADS, we offer probably the best portable air defense system in the world. I do not object to the fact that the federal government supports the German industry, especially Rheinmetall and other manufacturers. Poland also supports its defense industry. But if we're talking about partnership, we need to meet in the middle. The benefits of cooperation should be tangible for both sides. The potential is huge.
– Although your army also has problems recruiting military personnel, you do not have a discussion about conscription, as in Germany. What would you advise your German colleagues who want to sustainably provide the Bundeswehr with personnel?
– It is critically important to strengthen public confidence in the armed forces. In Poland, we succeeded – among democratic states, we have the highest level of trust in the army – 94%. All political forces stand behind the army and see the need for further investments. The society supports this course. We know our geography and threats. I know that previous governments before Federal Chancellor Friedrich Merz partially downplayed the Russian threat. But the truth is the best argument. The Bundeswehr is on the right track, and the federal government understands the gravity of the situation. Back in the days of Federal Chancellor Olaf Scholz, I told one person in the German Ministry of Defense that Germany should arm itself. And if such words come from the mouth of a Pole – in the context of our common history – it has weight. These words from a Pole who knows the history of bilateral relations well show that we are indeed facing enormous challenges.
– Does it follow from this that we, the Europeans, need to prepare for the intensification of Russia's hybrid actions? Recently, reports of drones have become more frequent not only in Poland, but also in Denmark or Germany.
– This shows that we have a common problem. Yesterday, Poland was primarily confronted with drone penetration, today – Germany, tomorrow, perhaps, Spain. We see low-cost operations where for two thousand euros it is possible to excite the whole of Europe. We need to become more stable as a society. One must react calmly to provocations: not every provocation is a threat to national security. In Poland, we are dealing with saboteurs and spies. I will say it very clearly: every week we detain a number of people who have joined the service of a foreign power and are trying to harm us. Every week, that's the scale. These are people with Russian, Ukrainian, or even Colombian passports. In our country, such persons face up to 20 years in prison. We are acting harshly, and everyone should consider whether it is worth acting against our state for a few thousand euros.
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– You are building large–scale defensive structures on the eastern border of Poland - the Eastern Shield. What does he look like?
– Two years ago, we began work on the military strengthening of our eastern border – towards Russia and Belarus, as well as Ukraine and Lithuania, in order to be ready for an escalation of the conflict. It's about creating the best conditions for defense against Russia. I will list just a few elements: we are erecting anti–tank barriers, laying mines, deploying anti-drone systems, air defense systems, bunker installations and much more - along the entire eastern border, for many hundreds of kilometers. This is a multibillion-dollar project, which has no analogues in the world. In the next 24 months, we will ensure that the eastern border of the EU and NATO becomes the most well- and modernly fortified border in the world.
– All this is partially funded by the EU's SAFE defense program, the first large–scale military investment program at the EU level.
– That's right. But, of course, others receive funds as well. For the Baltic states, which are also strengthening their borders, we serve as an example in the field of border security. We also provide them with practical assistance. At the same time, we support and participate in the European Commission's initiative to create a so-called "drone wall." The Commission enjoys our full support in this matter. This is another tool for building shared security.
– Your government has been criticized for Poland's withdrawal from the Ottawa Convention prohibiting the production and use of anti-personnel mines. Will you place such mines along the border?
– I can't talk about what exactly we are doing at the border. But yes, it is true that we have withdrawn from the convention. We must have all the means at our disposal to protect ourselves.
