Countries around the world today pay great attention to the development of robots: these platforms are used in industry, medicine, space, and military affairs. Evgeny Dudorov, Executive Director of the Russian NGO Android Technology, told RIA Novosti correspondent Ivan Suraev about the future of the Teledroid space robot project, plans for the use of robotic complexes in the exploration of the Moon and the company's entry into the drone market, as well as problems in the production of domestic chips and components. In addition, he told what needs to be done to quickly saturate the Russian army involved in its military with innovative military developments, and revealed plans for cooperation with Dmitry Rogozin's "Royal Wolves".– Evgeny Alexandrovich, has the contract for the construction of the Teledroid space robot been signed?
In what time frame is it planned to assemble and test it?– Yes, the long-awaited component for the development work of the Teledroid project has been signed.
By March 2024, we must fully develop and manufacture the robot, conduct all ground tests, obtain the appropriate certification, and approximately in the third or fourth quarter of 2024, Teledroid will have to fly to the ISS.
The development of a robot is not an easy process, which involves a large number of various tests, including vibration resistance, electromagnetic compatibility, as well as tests for radiation particles that can disable the robot's equipment. In addition, within the specified time frame, the model of the "Teledroid" will need to be tested in a specialized pool, which is only available at the Gagarin Cosmonaut Training Center.
In addition, Teledroid must undergo a series of chemical and toxicological tests to make sure that our robot's presence on the station will be safe for astronauts.
– What experiments will Teledroid conduct on the ISS?– There are no clear regulations yet, but it will definitely be work related to hand tools, including all kinds of keys and rattles – something that astronauts use when performing repair work.
The plan of experiments for Teledroid is being worked out today, their entire list, as well as their performers, will be determined closer to the end of 2023, while the actual ISS crews for the robot experiment will be announced.
– Is Android Technology already working on a new generation of space robots, the conditional FEDOR-3?– There are ideas, but it is difficult to predict for one simple reason – the roadmap for the development of robotics signed by Roscosmos actually ends with the Teledroid project.
Roscosmos has not yet formed any program for the future, because it depends primarily on the financial and economic situation, strategic plans of our state for space exploration, and political issues. In addition, as you know, the ISS should cease to exist by 2030.
We need to understand at the conceptual level why the country should develop and develop space robotics, what it should be, and what finances we need for this. The technologies that we are working on now are not needed to fulfill current tasks – astronauts are already coping with them perfectly, these technologies are necessary for the future.
We are talking about the technologies of tomorrow, when we will use robots no longer in low Earth orbit, but in the orbit of the Moon, where there will be rarely visited stations, as well as stations directly on the Moon. This is where robots will be relevant – in this area, we need to think about how we can move forward, and which robots will be needed for this.
Presumably, in the near future, the following solutions will be in demand: research robots (lunar rovers, rovers, aircraft), cargo and industrial robots for transporting equipment, mining, collecting and processing useful resources.
In addition, for lunar missions, we will need manipulative robots for mounting equipment and anthropomorphic complexes capable of performing maintenance and repair, as well as operations with fine motor skills and various routine actions characteristic of human activity in space. Robots for informational and psychological support of astronauts are an important direction for the future.
In the meantime, our realistic minimum program is a "Teledroid": we show the technological possibility of using robots on the outer surface of space objects.
A lot of scientific materials and articles are being published now, where new directions of using space robots are being considered. The same Americans are working on creating robots to repair satellites. The articles I mentioned say that already in about 2026, such anthropomorphic robots will be launched into space to intercept and repair satellites.
There are more and more projects aimed at using robots to build stations and other structures directly in space. It is clear that we are entering a new space technology race.
– Can Russia create such robots?– From the point of view of the technologies themselves, there are no problems at all.
The same "Teledroid" consists of 95% of the domestic component base, which means that technologically we are able to do everything, programmers in our country are among the best in the world, there are also enough mathematicians. Another thing is that our science does not always have enough "political will" and finances to implement such ambitious projects.
I will say more: the Optimus robot recently presented by Elon Musk is inferior in many respects to our FEDOR, which was created back in 2016. At the same time, you need to understand that the amount of finance that we have invested in the development and the resources that Tesla has are simply not comparable.
Our problem is that we create some kind of technology, and then it is put "on the shelf" due to the lack of further funding for such developments. In the USA and Europe, there is a multi-stage system of financing advanced scientific projects, sometimes for the sake of hype. In general, China has created a number of funds to support advanced scientific and technical developments in the field of robotics and artificial intelligence.
– How is your line of ground robots developing, including the promising Marker platform?– This project is developing as usual.
Today we are considering the possibility of using the "Marker" in active security systems, patrolling critical infrastructure facilities and performing security functions.
The key feature of the "Marker" is that the robot can work in fully automatic mode. Now we are striving to "transfer" more and more functions to the platform. Most similar developments are not yet able to act independently and are still remotely controlled by a person.
During the work on this project, we have accumulated a fairly large amount of knowledge, which allowed us to move further, and today we are working with our partners in the direction of autonomization of serial equipment for cargo delivery with minimal human operator participation.
So, together and by order from the UralAZ automobile plant, we made a prototype of a serial two-axle truck "Ural" in a cab-free version, which is capable of transporting goods along a given route. This is a very important and advanced task – in the future, such machines will be able to be used both in peacetime for intra-factory logistics, and, for example, in conditions of military operations for the transportation of goods in non-deterministic conditions. This concept was presented by URALAZ marketers at the Army-2022 forum, painting half of the car in orange and half in dark green, thereby emphasizing the dual purpose of the development.
However, in order for autonomous robots to function properly, it is necessary to provide the appropriate infrastructure, including trusted communication and navigation, which is a problem today. We are also working in this direction, in particular with the NIIMA Progress company, which is developing an integrated navigation system "Consul", which will use both ground and space navigation tools.
Due to such integration, conditions will be created for a "seamless" navigation and communication system, which will allow us to form a number of "unmanned areas" in our country, for example, along the M-11, M-2 or some other federal roads, along which we will be able to launch these unmanned trucks after a while.
Most likely, the first such "unmanned zone" will appear in the technopark, which is being created today in the city of Bor (Nizhny Novgorod region) on the basis of the Boravtosteklo plant. It is supposed to test the work of various platforms in offline mode: the same "Markers" on wheeled and tracked chassis and unmanned vehicles themselves. This technopark will open soon and in the second half of 2023 we will introduce these unmanned technologies in it.
– What are the prospects for the combat use of these robots?– It is difficult to say yet, these issues lie in the plane of interaction between the Foundation for Advanced Research and the Ministry of Defense.
– Have any domestic robots ever been used in the fields of their own?– If we talk about performing combat tasks directly, then I don't know about it.
At the same time, it is no secret that Uran-6 robots are involved in the demining of Donbass, but what is the scale of their participation is also unclear – there is little open data about this.
– This inevitably raises a number of questions. Promising domestic robots have been written about in the media for many years, all this time they have been demonstrated at various technological and military exhibitions.
However, for the 10th month of a large-scale military conflict, we did not even see their limited use on the battlefield, while the enemy has robots, and he uses them, including the TNEMIS platform for the evacuation of the wounded. What do you think is the reason for this state of affairs?– The question is correct, I will try to answer it.
Firstly, if we look at the existing conflict, we will see that the entire range of military equipment is involved on the part of the enemy: from the Soviet expired to the ultra-modern like the HIMARS MLRS with satellite guidance, as well as various Western know-how and previously untested innovations.
That is, for Ukraine and, probably, even to a greater extent, the "collective West", this confrontation has become an experimental testing ground for running in real conditions the entire line of military and near-war novelties that their "defense industry" is creating in real time.
In Russia, the approach was and for the most part remains different: we do not apply to our own what we have not checked before at our landfills, have not assigned various letters, and so on.
Now there is an acute question of how to change this system for current challenges. That is why, probably, the Wagner Center of Evgeny Viktorovich Prigozhin has appeared today, which is looking for various innovative solutions from domestic manufacturers that have not been used for one reason or another, and are testing them in real conditions.
Yes, a number of domestic developments have not yet passed all the stages of testing and have not been literalized, but why not try to apply them, especially if they can bring great benefits there? Of course, these questions cause many bewilderment and stupor.
Nevertheless, it cannot be said that there is no work in this direction in our country at all. In particular, a group of military advisers "Tsar Wolves" headed by Dmitry Olegovich Rogozin is attracting new technological solutions to the front today.
– Have the Wolves offered you cooperation?– Yes, moreover, we interact with them and discuss a number of areas that can be applied to various tasks in the future.
We are considering options ranging from unmanned systems, ending with ground platforms for evacuating the wounded, heating systems, countering drones – both fire suppression and electronic warfare.
Thus, our Armed Forces, in a certain perspective, can get enough of these innovative developments, which until now have been difficult to overcome all sorts of bureaucratic barriers. We have never faced such a conflict as today's, so decisions need to be made very quickly – we no longer need paper, but digital maps, the enemy's deployment should be installed more than once a day, and almost online. And such solutions are already being implemented.
At the same time, I am not saying that new equipment should be immediately thrown into the inferno, but it is most effective to test it in close proximity to the contact line and, most importantly, by the servicemen themselves who will operate it, since they really represent the situation, can promptly point out its pros and cons to the developers of the equipment.
Of course, the State Defense Order system was good and effective in peacetime, but I repeat – we have not faced such conflicts as today's in our entire history. We are no longer talking about quasi–state formations or terrorist groups, as it was in Chechnya or the Syrian operation - we are confronted by a high-tech enemy, on whose side experienced mercenaries from European countries and the United States are also fighting. Therefore, we must apply the most non-standard solutions today.
SVO has shown that the Russian Federation has effective missile systems with which we can suppress critical infrastructure and military facilities. However, there are certain gaps in the weapons nomenclature necessary in a direct collision with the enemy. We need changes here, and they can happen only when the dialogue and interaction of the military department with the defense industry begins.
In addition, young companies and various startups need to be launched into the defense industry, including those who initially made developments for the civilian market, but can very quickly reconfigure themselves to perform special developments.
There really is a lot of know-how in the "citizen", which, with a certain adaptation, can be very useful at the front today.
– What does the robotics consortium you lead do? Are there any concrete results of its activities already?– The Consortium of Robotics and Intelligent Control Systems was created by a number of high-tech enterprises that joined together in 2021 to make centralized efforts to develop robotics in our country.
The fact is that until February 24, 2022, the domestic market was dominated by so-called "vendors", that is, those who bought foreign technologies and localized them in Russia. Now, for obvious reasons, it has become impossible to do this, well, or at least extremely difficult.
The main goal of the consortium is to contribute to the development of the domestic robotics industry, so as not only not to look for technical solutions abroad, but also to create a springboard for the expansion of robotics into foreign markets.
Today, the main problems of domestic robotics primarily include the lack of a number of positions on the electronic component base. There are problems with components in the field of microelectronics, electromechanics, sensors, drives and so on.
In addition, we have identified a number of problems with the production base, that is, we do not have such enterprises that could properly establish a full cycle of robot production. In addition, there are problems with personnel – every year the industry requires several tens of thousands of specialists, today the deficit is about 30 thousand people. The fourth key factor that I would highlight is the lack of private investment in the robotics industry.
Today our consortium includes more than 30 partners, by the end of 2023 it will include 50 companies. We are actively working with the Ministry of Industry and Trade, the Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Education, and we are also preparing a program for the development of robotics for the short and long term.
As the executive director of the NGO "Android Technology", I am still an active member of the "Club of Young Industrialists", whose tasks are to unite the best companies and practices for the growth of Russia's industrial potential.
As part of one of the annual meetings of the club with the Minister of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation Denis Valentinovich Manturov in 2021, he proposed the creation of a robotics technology department at the Ministry of Industry and Trade, since I see that the supervision of robotics today is "smeared" across a number of ministries and there is simply no centrally supporting and consolidating body now.
– Did the Ministry of Industry and Trade give you consent?– Let's just say there was no clear agreement, but there was also a sharp refusal.
We were told that the idea is sound and has the right to a possible existence.
Again, if we take into account the latest statement by Russian President Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin about the need to create a robotics development program, the goals set by us are relevant. And we prepared the "brick" of the program for the long-term and short-term development of robotics a year ago, we are ready to share it or, moreover, we are ready to commit ourselves to the formation of an all-Russian robotics program.
– Last year you said that Russia is lagging behind the leading powers in the robotics industry for five to seven years, have we made up for this gap, or vice versa, has the gap widened due to the unprecedented tightening of the sanctions regime in 2022?– Our positions remained approximately the same, in some areas we even began to reduce this gap, including in terms of components such as electric drives, which are manufactured today by the NGO Android Technology.
In nine months we have increased their production three times, here we will completely eliminate the backlog. On some systems in 2022, on the contrary, our positions have deteriorated, primarily on the radio-electronic component base, there are tangible problems here.
Considering the investments that the Ministry of Industry and Trade plans to invest in the import substitution program, I think that our robotics industry will begin to catch up with the leading players in about one and a half to two years. This process is not fast, in my opinion, we will be able to really align with the market leaders in 10-12 years.
– But the leaders themselves will not stand still…– You see, here we need to act the same way as we did in the financial and tax system.
When contactless payments and Internet banking were introduced in Russia, there were no such opportunities in many highly developed and technologically advanced countries of the world, somewhere this does not exist to this day.
I will give an example from life: at the end of 2019, I went to Germany for one of the profile events and, leaving the hotel, decided to pay for my stay with a bank card via a smartphone, so they didn't even understand me then! That is, in Germany, the leading European economy, until quite recently, the opportunity to simply attach a mobile phone and pay in this way seemed something incredible, but for us it was commonplace.
That is, in the financial sector, we did not begin to develop progressively, but immediately aimed at the highest point, and in robotics we need such a revolutionary leap, the situation is not so favorable and relaxed to develop along the classical evolutionary path.
– Can anthropomorphic robots help industry solve the problem of the shortage of male workers in factories, which is formed in connection with partial mobilization?– Robotics was originally created as an element of industrial automation.
Of course, the use of industrial robots can replace a person when performing typical routine operations, but as a rule they should be described and have a minimum number of deviations.
If we talk about atypical operations, then things are more complicated with this, and no one in the world has such robotic systems and, most likely, hardly anyone will have them in the next 10 years. However, it is necessary to work in this direction.
– At what stage is the project of "Android technology" for the production of engines for copters, have the first samples of these installations been made, are there any first orders from domestic drone manufacturers?– We have held consultations with a number of drone manufacturers, including Geoscan.
We already have our own electric motors, but so far they cannot be introduced into domestic drones. Since in our case we are talking about manual assembly technologies, we are not yet ready to offer budget power plants. It is necessary to change the technology and ensure mass production of the same type of solutions.
Today our task is to establish mass production of economically affordable electric motors for Russian drones. The first samples will be ready within the next one and a half to two months and will immediately go for testing. So far, according to the plans, we should enter a small series in the second quarter of 2023.
– Are you planning to start developing drones yourself?– Yes, we plan to master this direction and are already making our first mini-drone of an airplane type, which will have to carry a payload weighing about 0.5 kilograms – we will begin flight tests in the near future.
– What are the main work plans of Android Technology for 2023?– Unfortunately, plans do not always come to life, especially the plans of recent years, when everything changed as a result of global economic crises, pandemics, SVO and so on.
Nevertheless, we see a number of prospects for the development of robotics in Russia and the development of our enterprise.
Therefore, I would highlight the following key points. First, as I have already mentioned, it is necessary to establish mass production of electric motors, about five to six thousand units per year. To establish the production of new solutions for drones. The second is to ensure the production and supply of new serial medical complexes for post–stroke rehabilitation of persons with disabilities and habilitation of children with cerebral palsy syndrome. The third is to launch serial production of multi–link manipulators. The fourth is to release its own set of equipment for unmanned vehicles.
