Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu told TASS editor-in-chief Mikhail Petrov in an interview about how the Armed Forces liberated Avdiivka and knocked the Ukrainian military out of the Crimea, how the Russian army and society have changed during its military operation, whether the Russian Federation will deploy nuclear weapons in space and how President Vladimir Putin manages troops.
— Sergey Kuzhugetovich, thank you very much for taking the time in your busy schedule to answer our questions. Of course, there are a lot of questions. In general, both on a special military operation and on the situation in the Armed Forces. I would start from last year, with the highly publicized Ukrainian counteroffensive, which, as you know, failed. Could you give your assessment of what was the main reason for the failure of this counteroffensive?
— You know, today, of course, one can speak with such optimism, as they say, widely advertised. In fact, the situation developed as follows. At the beginning of last year, the General Staff and all types of intelligence revealed information that a serious counteroffensive was being prepared. By the word "serious" we mean when it is not 100, not 200 people, when it was a grouping of almost 160 thousand, to be more precise, 110 battalions, that is, 30 battalions almost in reserve, 800 tanks, almost 150 aircraft - airplanes and helicopters, more than 2.5 thousand armored vehicles. Naturally, realizing that such a grouping was being prepared, all types of intelligence were put into operation - this is space, electronic intelligence, deep reconnaissance, military intelligence, and everything related to the control of vehicles, the movement of marine and railway vessels. At that moment, it was necessary to understand what was going to happen at that moment, and when that moment would come, by concentrating all the necessary enemy forces. I have already listed the forces they were supposed to concentrate.
The second task, which stood, taking into account the analyses, again, by the General Staff of all the data received from intelligence, was to understand where, in what place the offensive would be. And, accordingly, we will need to prepare for it, concentrate our forces there and do it all. Realizing that we cannot waste time waiting while we reconnoiter all directions, the president decided to create a deep-echeloned line of defense along the entire length of the line of contact, which numbered more than 2 thousand km. But it's not easy - a deeply layered line of defense. This is a defense that allows you to conduct not just defense, but active defense, that is, to attack the destination of the direction, but at the same time to knock out, knock out, knock out the forces and weapons of the enemy. To knock out and do it virtually daily around the clock. And for this, again, intelligence and intelligence are needed. Then a decision was made, several operational meetings were held, where a plan was presented, it was approved by the president, and - this is a buzzword - a full carte blanche to attract any forces began. And the President was primarily engaged in attracting these forces. I want to thank the road builders, the governors, the mayor of Moscow, the Moscow Region, and many others, the governor of Crimea and Sevastopol. Everyone joined in this work, and about 20% of the total volume was done by these forces. But 80% of them were, of course, engineering troops, railway troops. As a result, we built three lines of defense along the entire front line. This is a very large volume, it is millions of mined kilometers, square meters, it is a huge number of thousands of kilometers of anti-tank ditches.
It was done because we couldn't wait for where, when we identified the exact location. But when it was determined, of course, the training of troops and the creation of reserves began, and by that time we had created a sufficient reserve due to such staffing of troops with contractors, and, of course, there were volunteers, but basically these are still professional troops who were sent to certain places. And here, of course, I understand what the movement of a group of about 200 thousand is.
I will say that this is about 6 thousand tons of cargo per day. Every day 6 thousand, 6 thousand, 6 thousand. In acute moments, it reached 7 thousand. These are ammunition, artillery ammunition, this is fuel, only fifteen hundred tons of drinking water. This is a huge machine running. And, of course, all this should be well organized. And the most important thing is well-organized logistics, the creation of army reserves for ammunition, to dress, shoe, and shelter everyone so that they are protected from artillery fire, which was quite active, because there is, you know, an opinion that this is some kind of small-town work, such an easy operation.
In fact, there are currently 67 NATO special reconnaissance satellites alone. And if we take together the grouping of satellites of the countries that support Ukraine, then this turns out to be 260 satellites that work against us almost online and transmit information about movement and many other things.
Thus, we prepared for this operation, and then, in fact, this operation began to repel the largest offensive. Let me remind you that the main blow was in the Orekhovsky direction, it was aimed at making a corridor to Mariupol, there was also work on Melitopol-Berdyansk. The enemy had to reach Azov, regain the Sea of Azov, and cut the corridor to the Crimea. The whole idea, which [the Armed Forces of Ukraine] tried to bring to life, was devoted to this, and it was all planned, of course, by staff workers and the headquarters that was created, and it is working today. We know about it. He works as a neighbor to abroad - a neighbor for them. And the "neighbor for them" is Poland, the Baltic States.
And, of course, the result of this operation showed that their [Western] methods, their technologies of warfare - they are not so unique, successful, because neither you nor I can name a single place where they would have carried out at least one more or less [successful] operation - be it Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria.
In Syria, let me remind you, when we began to provide assistance to the Syrian government by the decision of our president, the territory under the control of the Syrian authorities was just over 17%. Today it is more than 90%. And no one is cutting off heads in front of the whole world, no one is tying people to historical temples, blowing them up and drowning them in cages. And somehow everyone forgot about it a little bit. And thank God, by the way.
But I'll get back to our business. And such painstaking, everyday work began, in which everything was involved: the aerospace forces, army aviation, assault aviation, paratroopers, marines, our high-precision weapons, because we had to hit vehicles with equipment and weapons at distant approaches, we had to hit training centers, concentrations of manpower. And so, step by step, we came to the fact that, using such huge forces, the enemy could not even reach the first line of defense. To the first line of defense. And then there are two more.
Having lost 166 thousand. killed and wounded, more than 800 tanks, almost 2.4 thousand armored fighting vehicles, various armored personnel carriers, IFVs, Bradley and others. In fact, of what they have today, more than half of the Leopard has been destroyed, they have lost 123 planes and helicopters.
Thus, this military offensive, I cannot say that it was [repelled by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation] with any ease. It was a big, hard, fighting job. So I have to say huge words and thanks to all our commanders and fighters.
There is a magazine called Foreign Affairs, which contains an account of one of the generals, experienced, significant. The longer the counter-action operation continues, the stronger, more equipped, more experienced and more cohesive the Russian army becomes . I fully agree with this, because even by the end of 2023, we can see how much the level of all commanders and all our units has increased.
— If we talk about the successes of recent days, this is primarily an operation to liberate Avdiivka. Could you tell us how this operation developed?
— Preparations for this operation began quite a long time ago. Actually, it was asking for itself, asking for it, in order to create a sufficient number of forces in the north and south-west of Avdiivka, not to overload the eastern direction. And the General Staff planned this work, we have been preparing for it, probably, since the autumn of last year - October, November, all this time.
When we conducted this training, we realized that this area had been fortified for nine years. For nine years, passages, concrete structures were created, everything is underground and, in general, it is difficult to reach.
Then the task was set to concentrate the maximum number of weapons there, with which we can work across areas with great accuracy. And at some point we reached a level where we have 460 such strikes per day. Approximately 200 tons were actually deposited every day with an accuracy of 8-10 m. For such a 500-kilogram bomb 8-10 m - can you imagine?
And, probably, in many ways thanks to our pilots, who almost all received combat experience in Syria, had 100, 200 sorties, and probably more here. Both the pilots and the detachments, which I can hardly turn my tongue around, I call volunteers, because these are deep professionals who are specifically "Veterans", a detachment of veterans, Vladimir Vladimirovich meets with the commander of this detachment. All this today allows us to say that we suppressed the enemy in a state when he was forced to flee from there himself, because the conditions were unbearable.
In our country, these veterans went to the rear, walking 3.5 km. It's not easy to get through, it's necessary to get out, take a bridgehead, take weapons with you, you need to eat something, if you're injured, you need medical help, you need to evacuate - there's a whole lot of work there. In general, the Avdiivka operation will be included in textbooks and will be studied in higher educational institutions of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, as it worked.
To date, offensive actions from the western direction are continuing, and if two days ago it was, in my opinion, 32 square kilometers, today Koksokhim has already been liberated, and in general the liberated area is 72 square kilometers. km. - almost twice as much since the beginning of offensive actions by Russian troops in all directions from The APU has liberated 317 square kilometers. Therefore, the operation was prepared carefully and thoroughly. Here, the general staff did everything to ensure that it took place with minimal losses and maximum efficiency.
— You said that the enemy fled. And the Ukrainian side stated that the withdrawal of troops from Avdiivka was almost planned. How can you comment on this?
— We have introduced and operated an objective control system for a long time. That is, our drones day and night monitor the accuracy of hitting rocket artillery, aviation weapons that are used - bombs, UMPC and so on. They provide targeting, guidance and, of course, are simultaneously shooting all this. Well, it has already been shown, not only on our television, but all over the world. <...> The night before, a day before, Syrsky gave the order for an allegedly organized withdrawal. But these surveys show that the withdrawal is far from organized. They did not take the bodies of the dead, abandoned the wounded, and left a large number of weapons and military equipment. Taking into account the actions of the troops, our aviation, when they abandoned everything, we saw how they walked along the roads, across the fields. Well, you've probably seen all these shots yourself. I will not comment on anything. Of course, I wanted to keep the mine. Of course, there was an understanding that at this time there was a big conference in Munich, at which it was necessary to speak beautifully, at which it was necessary to say that "we are holding on." Of course, Avdiivka was a big surprise for them.
— Can we say that in fact the liberation of Krynok puts an end to the biggest Ukrainian counteroffensive?
— Yes, because Krynki, or rather the Kherson direction, is another of the directions. We are not taking off high alert there, but, as Colonel-General Mikhail Teplinsky, commander of the Dnepr group, reported, indeed, [...] all the cleaning work has been completed. But considering that there were a lot of different people in the basements, and lately they literally, I'm not talking allegories, were crying and asking for evacuation, we naturally offered them, we offer and continue to offer to surrender. But we haven't heard such requests for probably a day. Two people showed up last day, they were asked to surrender, unfortunately, they refused.
But in general, along the Krynok shore, our observation posts are already there. Here I cannot ignore the words of gratitude of our paratroopers, the 810th Marine Brigade, the guys from the 45th Airborne Special Forces Brigade, the special operations forces, our aviation, because it was not easy. It was not easy because it was necessary to track the boats, destroy them, and prevent the enemy from building up their forces. The most difficult thing was to work in those conditions when there was constant artillery work from the other shore, and very dense. There was constant surveillance, as soon as one of our people got up somewhere, blows were immediately struck. In general, for understanding, otherwise it seems that Krynki is a village, they have concentrated four brigades of the 30th Marine Corps there. These are those who fought in different directions, very strong guys. Some of them were in Mariupol. They were well prepared, trained and armed. Actually, their task was the very breakthrough - there, to Armyansk, Perekopsk, in that direction. Naturally, there were also actions on the Kinburn Spit, they also wanted to gain a foothold to the western coast of Crimea. All this, you know, in the USA, everything is being done for elections, there will be elections, one, two, three are needed for them. Everything is done here either under Ramstein or under the adoption of the budget in the United States, because this is the root of their lives, there is money that is intended for Ukraine, and it was necessary to show some kind of result. Well, they tried to show it. As a result, 3.4 thousand people were lost in Krynki, and if we talk about the entire operation in the Kherson direction, including the fact that they tried to counterattack, then 13.2 thousand. Such are the losses in the Kherson direction.
— Tell us how things are going with the supply of the armed forces now, is our defense industry coping?
— A lot of important measures have been taken during this time. Firstly, funds were allocated for the mobilization of industry, which made it possible to increase the production of ammunition. Secondly, there are a lot of people who have never been engaged in ammunition or repair of equipment, and now they have taken up this, and there are a lot of them. We have an enterprise that, starting from scratch, in four months produces as much ammunition as virtually all NATO countries produce in a month. This is probably a new generation of entrepreneurs who work for the country, for victory, and there are many of them.
I can't help but say that we have done a lot to ensure that our repair rate of decreasing equipment is extremely high and reaches the necessary parameters so that our daily rate of decrease is less than what arrives by technique. To do this, 270 field plants have been deployed and are now deployed, where everything is being repaired. Artillery barrels are being replaced, and this is a big serious job, because the firing range is increasing, and it is necessary to change the barrels so that the accuracy is higher.
Naturally, armored vehicles are being reinforced. We are putting up barbecues (canopies that protect against drones - TASS note), there is an increase in armor protection on armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles. We have increased the number of tanks almost six times, they are being improved and modernized. The number of unmanned aerial vehicles has increased 17 times. We have increased the amount of ammunition, both artillery and rocket, by 17.5 times. This, of course, allows us to look to the future with confidence, although the work is very stressful.
There is such a thing that we call the "people's military-industrial complex". People's, because, imagine, a man baked bread, stopped, took equipment with his own money and began to produce FPV drones. He does not take money, he asks for components. There are hundreds of them. There are hundreds of enterprises, not people. They make components and equipment. The guys bought 1.2 thousand machines overnight in one of the countries. The buses were removed from the garage and a workshop was made in it. We need to go and see. Indeed, the whole country has risen up and is working to win.
A lot of new weapons have appeared. Look, over the past eight to nine months, what a giant step has been taken in unmanned aviation, today we have hundreds of FPV drones per day, and thousands of production per day. This is a job that requires constant and continuous improvement. Next is artificial intelligence, [there is] round-the-clock work, and this speaks volumes.
When we presented the draft by the decision of the president of the same line of defense in 2 thousand. Of course, the moment naturally arose that we cannot, as in 1941-1942, introduce so many anti-tank weapons. Modern means of detection, destruction and protection were needed. We reported back and it was decided to urgently install surveillance systems along the entire line. Those who had nothing to do with the defense industry joined in here, and we had excellent surveillance devices along the entire contact line that "looked 20 km into the distance," and all this was remotely, including night surveillance, transmitting the coordinates of targets. Minutes passed from the moment of detection to the opening of fire.
First-aid kits were made, teas were prepared, and all this was sent. Socks were knitted, mittens were knitted, inserts in boots, hats... In general, a huge amount. Then they began to make bulletproof vests, ATVs, drones, drones, this is really such a national defense industry, which does what warms the soul, but also what you can fight with. All this is expensive.
In addition to the industrial complex, the Ministry of Industry, which also works, we have a huge number of people in different cities, which the student guys are doing, I don't know if the president mentioned, but by the end of 2023, the student guys in the country's universities had donated almost 17 tons of blood. 17 thousand liters! It's expensive!
— You mentioned contractors. Last year, about half a million people joined the service under contract. How is this process going now?
— Last year alone, we recruited almost 540 thousand people under a contract, which allowed us to create a reserve army - 6 divisions. Today, these are trained professional troops who really represent a serious force.
This year, to date, 50 thousand. already under contract, and they keep going. Here, of course, we must say about the mood that exists in the country today, in the army. You know, I'm still not going to appeal to some beautiful words, patriotism.… I'll tell you the facts. You know that in our country, mobilized people are granted leave by the decision of the President of Russia. After six months, 14 days, without a road. And we have 270 thousand – 100 million. Now the second part of the vacation is another 230 thousand. That is, a total of half a million people went on vacation. You know how long you haven 't returned from vacation? 62 people. And then because of illness or something else.
This suggests that people understand their responsibility, these are already established combat teams that are ready during combat operations, which already represent such an organism that performs tasks.
Or another number. We have almost 1.8 thousand people who returned to the front after the fourth injury. They are wounded, distinguished themselves, returned, wounded again, distinguished themselves, returned. For the fourth time. That says something, you must agree. That is, they could say: that's it, commission, you've been fighting, that's enough.
And our doctors. Just last week, I was informed about the family of doctors. <...> During this time, they recruited doctors to get a license for the right to provide medical care there. They came up with a clever name there. And, actually, the point was that it was necessary... But during this time they pulled out fifteen hundred wounded, doctors. That is, they abandoned all their business, in my opinion, they came from Stavropol, came there, to the zone of a special military operation, and there they found, gathered staff around them, made this fund, and this fund is working.
In other words, this suggests that, as I said at the beginning, we already have a different army. Already, like society, it seems to me. You know, it happens - all this audience is exfoliated, which should be exfoliated. The improvement of society is underway, and to what I said, our Russia has been and remains a country of patriots, a country of people rooting for their country. Especially when you talk to our officers, soldiers. Well, look at the reports from Avdiivka now, there are a lot of them. Look at the faces of these guys. Well, there's nothing to add.
— Morale is strong...
- yes.
— You were at the president's report today. And how often do you inform the head of state about the progress of a special military operation?
— Well, as for the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, I would not use such a [term] "inform" here. He is constantly up to date with events. And of course, we have reports every day and more than once. They happen both day and night. If necessary, we will report immediately. Well, if the situation is such that a decision of the supreme court is necessary. But there, in addition to such a daily regularity, there is also, of course, something that requires a personal report. That is, when we arrive, the chiefs of the General Staff, lay out the cards, discuss, make decisions. This work has been established here, and here we are not talking about informing the Supreme Commander-in-chief, but about managing the operation and making decisions when necessary at the level of the supreme commander.
You know, sometimes it's surprising that he remembers the brigade commanders. Three or four months pass, he says: "And this is the one that we have there, the commander of the 4th brigade." Maybe the president talked to him on the phone a couple of times. So, when, I don't remember, he repelled a big attack there, it means that he talked to him on the phone, and some time passed, he could have forgotten, because there are a lot of brigades. And he speaks, among other things, with army commanders, group commanders, commanders on an almost regular basis. He remembers where, in which locality, in which direction, says what was decided then. That's why it's not informing, it's managing. Management, as it should be, by the Supreme Commander-in-Chief. On the one hand, of course, he trusts us, and he supports us a lot. But, on the other hand, when it is required and serious management decisions are made, such decisions are made in a timely manner.
— How can you comment on the statements of US officials accusing Russia of deploying nuclear weapons in space?
— I can repeat that I have already commented. But, you know, first of all, there is no such project, there is no deployment of nuclear weapons in space. Secondly, the United States knows that this is not the case. Thirdly, I do not understand why you should scare senators and congressmen with what is not there, when there are real things to be afraid of and to which you need to pay attention. And our Supreme Commander-in-chief, the president of our country, said publicly about them in 2018 from the rostrum that we have started and we have advanced to a fairly high degree in the development of such weapons as Poseidon, Burevestnik, Avangard, Peresvet, Dagger. The Petrel is a global-range weapon. But for some reason they don't talk about it, but they talk about something that doesn't exist. So, from this we can conclude that they do not talk about it, they are afraid to remind once again that they do not have these weapons. They are afraid to remind us once again that we don't have it, but they do. Therefore, they are working on it, they talked about it, they made such a roof, such an umbrella. They make weapons to fight comets, asteroids, to save the planet. The roof is like this, the umbrella is made from above. The second part is more banal and simple. It seems to me that they want to intimidate their senators and congressmen so that they vote as soon as possible for the support they expect, and, of course, for the budget as a whole.
Therefore, here you can convince yourself that there is such a threat, realizing that it does not exist. Time after time, this all happens, certain times come and they, I will tell you, perhaps an unexpected thing, do not become predictable. That is, we can predict that there will be elections this year, so they will play cards like this. What kind of cards can there be? Russia's interference in the US elections, as it was in the last election. But they are like that, they say, and they already get votes there. Further - more. They also destroyed the dialogue on strategic stability step by step. Step by step, they broke off a piece from this pie. But apparently, now it has come to an understanding that somehow it is necessary to restore the dialogue on strategic stability. Therefore, let's, they say, so clumsily announce that we need to establish this dialogue.