Moscow. December 16. INTERFAX-A line of new aircraft will be created on the basis of the IL-114-300, which made its first flight, and the fifth-generation Su-57 fighter can get a two-seat version, First deputy chairman of the board of the Military-Industrial Commission Andrey Yelchaninov said. In an interview with Interfax, he spoke about working on a new "strategist", a sixth-generation fighter and strike drones.
- Andrey Fedorovich, today the long-awaited first flight of the IL-114-300 regional aircraft took place. was it successful? How soon will the tests of the aircraft be completed and serial deliveries begin?
- According to the results of the first flight, we were convinced of the possibility of our industry to implement this project. the order of the president of russia was given back in 2016. so this is a significant event for the aviation industry. IL-114 has shown its viability and is moving to a new stage – flight and certification tests. Deliveries to customers are expected from 2023.
Il-114-300 – the aircraft is designed for regional passenger transportation and is primarily focused on the domestic market. We are already seeing interest from regional airlines. Equipped with modern equipment and systems, it will be able to replace outdated aircraft of the An brand and imported aircraft of this class in the fleets of carriers.
I would like to draw attention to the fact that the IL-114-300 is not a copy of the Soviet IL-114 aircraft, which was still operated in the CIS countries until the year before last. These are new engines, new avionics, and a new interior. And, of course, a new approach to the operation of the aircraft and its after-sales service. The plane was not born as easily as we would like, although the technical solutions were predictable.
- how did you manage to cope with these difficulties when creating the il-114?
-The necessary decisions, including personnel decisions, were made in the development companies and manufacturers. the united aircraft corporation (uac), with the approval of rostec, built a third prototype of the aircraft to attract it to flight tests and fit in with the timing of reaching the finish line. in fact, in 2018, the program was transferred to manual management mode by the government of the russian federation with the participation of the ministry of industry and trade, uac and rostec. In the end, we managed to give an additional impetus to the development of the program, we reached the finish line and now we see the result – the first flight of the highly demanded IL-114-300 aircraft.
The aircraft is designed for regional routes, primarily in the regions of the North, the Far East and Siberia. it is designed for autonomous operation in a wide range of climatic conditions using short runways, airfields with weak technical equipment. il aircraft-114-300 - basic, on its basis, options for creating also popular transport and transport-passenger versions will be worked out.
- Already have a starting customer?
- in the near future, a firm contract will be signed with the state transport leasing company (stlc) for the supply of three aircraft in the interests of regional airlines.
- are the military interested in this plane?
- The defense Ministry is considering the possibility of creation on the basis of Il-114 special versions – it's a plane aerial photography, and, quite possibly, the plane, and the unit is given its opportunity long enough to patrol, around 9 hours. And also these are planes-special communication nodes, planes of radiation, chemical reconnaissance of the area. The aircraft can be used under the Open Skies Treaty as a replacement for the AN-30. In general, he has quite great prospects.
- in general, how do you assess the situation in the aviation industry against the background of the coronavirus pandemic?
- Worldwide, the aviation industry suffered the most significant financial and economic losses during the pandemic. As for the Russian enterprises that worked on the implementation of the state defense order, the epidemiological situation did not fundamentally affect the fulfillment of obligations. All aircraft intended for delivery will be transferred.
- Will the Su-57 fighter also be delivered on time?
- We expect that the transfer of the first production Su-57 aircraft to the customer in the person of the Ministry of Defense will take place before the end of December.
- How do you assess the work on this project?
- Su-57 is one of the basic programs in the interests of the Ministry of Defense. This is a platform on the basis of which a whole family of aircraft, including specialized ones, can be born. Perhaps for the first time in the history of aviation, such a huge amount of tests will have to be performed: 10 aircraft are involved in them, more than 4.2 thousand flights have been performed. they have not yet been fully completed. but there is full confidence that the aircraft in the form that is transferred to the troops will complete state tests in 2021, all technical problems have been solved.
- is there any progress in creating the second stage engine?
- the work continues. We hope that within the framework of this or the next serial contract, the aircraft will already be delivered with a new engine. yes, this is quite a long procedure, but the remotorization of the aircraft has always been a slow process, which requires a large amount of flight tests, and an assessment of the interaction of all systems with the power plant.
- How is the development of new weapons for the Su-57 progressing?
- The peculiarity of the Su-57 is that it carries not only weapons that are already used by other types of aircraft (Mig-29, Su-30SM, Su-34), but also new types of weapons that will be used from the fuselage space. Their tests are planned to be completed in 2021 as part of the aviation weapons complex. They are created from scratch, they are completely new samples, with new characteristics, using new guidance principles. This is a really big step forward. The Su-57 is a smart aircraft with smart weapons – air-to-air and air-to-surface missiles.
- Is the export of the Su-57 possible in the near future, or is there only a "PR campaign"going on?
- This is not a PR campaign, but a well-organized work: a product that is highly appreciated within the country – by the Ministry of Defense, will also be in demand by our foreign partners. Negotiations are underway with potential buyers. Various delivery options are being considered: a separate aircraft and an aircraft with a full range of weapons, with an after-sales service system. In addition, at the request of the customer, the appearance of the aircraft can be modified. So we are confident about the export prospects of the Su-57.
Perhaps a two-seat version of this aircraft will be in demand for export. We are able to create it: now our Ministry of Defense and potential customers are rethinking this need.
- how would you comment on the situation with the theft of equipment on the secret il-80 aircraft in taganrog?
- i am sure that the competent authorities will find the persons who caused the damage, but it will be very difficult to compensate for it. The operator of the aircraft must assess the damage and make a decision - to restore the aircraft from the units and units available in reserve, or place an order for the reproduction of the stolen one. I note that these units and blocks are far from mass production.
- special purpose aircraft like the il-80 will continue to be used in the military in the near future?
- The program is not completed, it will develop with a different type of aircraft. The Ministry of Defense opened work on the creation of aircraft to replace the IL-80, the development and production of prototypes of the control aircraft and the repeater aircraft was set. The control aircraft will be based on the IL-96, and the repeater aircraft will be based on the new IL-76.
- how do you Assess The success OF The russian federation in creating drones? Is there a lag behind other countries? The whole world is now talking about the effectiveness of Turkish drones
- We do not show off our achievements. You should not be confused that the names of our drones are not mentioned as often as Turkish ones during the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh. We have similar technical solutions that we are able to apply equally successfully in our interests. This applies to almost any UAV dimension. We do not have any lag here, there are problematic issues, we are trying to solve them in a short time.
In my opinion, the development of three companies for the needs of the Ministry of Defense deserves public attention: the Kronstadt company, the Ural Civil Aviation Plant (UZGA) and the Sukhoi company.
The line of drones of the company "Kronstadt" was presented at the forum "Army-2020", they aroused genuine interest, including from colleagues from abroad. These are different types of aircraft with different aerodynamic schemes and different potential capabilities: strike variants, scouts, UAVs of long-range radar detection, UAVs-repeaters. UZGA creates its own line of attack aircraft. Here, healthy competition can only be welcomed, and the Ministry of Defense, encouraging this competition, can choose a more suitable option. At the same time, a huge market allows all firms to work on it and find their customers.
Our highlight is a heavy unmanned aircraft system of the "Hunter" type, which is engaged in the company "Sukhoi". The drone has shown performance, is being tested. What is flying now is a technology demonstrator and a prototype drone, which should be delivered to the troops from 2024.
- Serial purchases of the "Hunter" will be included in the next state armament program?
- Yes, in the next GPV for 2024-2033, over the formation of which the Ministry of Defense is currently working. we are also actively involved in this process. One of the tasks of the Board of the Military-Industrial Commission is to find a compromise between the capabilities of industrial enterprises to produce the necessary products in a certain time and within a certain financial framework and to align them with the interests of the Ministry of Defense in terms of implementing the tasks of ensuring the country's security. this is a priority in the work of the board.
- It was reported that the "Hunter" is tested not only by itself, but also in conjunction with the Su-57 - what does this give?
- First, it is necessary to work out the mutual transfer of information between aircraft: this includes the redistribution of targets in flight, maintaining intervals and distances, and performing anti-missile maneuvers. Moreover, the information should not be distributed further than these two machines. There can also be an optimization of the set of equipment required for aircraft navigation. Having worked out these solutions on two aircraft, you can scale them to three, four, and so on. Then there will be no need to equip all aircraft with a full set of equipment to perform the functions of a command post — one aircraft with a pilot is able to redistribute tasks in a group taking into account machine or artificial intelligence, provide information exchange and organize the work of this so-called "swarm". But I believe that this is a wrong concept, there can be no swarm in aviation, there can only be a controlled order of battle, even if it is scattered. A complex process where artificial intelligence must find its place.
- So the ideal prospect is one Su-57 and a group of "Hunters"?
- this is one of the possible images that potentially says that human life is always higher and more expensive. And the possibility of a single human brain is much higher than the totality of a set of computing machines.
- Do you think the drone can make the final decision on the destruction of the target or it still has to do a person? How do you see the prospects for the introduction of artificial intelligence in relation to military aviation?
- It depends on what to put in the concept of artificial intelligence. If we are talking about the possibility of making the necessary decisions in the shortest possible time, taking into account the computational capabilities, this is not a prospect, but already a reality. And some elements of artificial intelligence in this sense-optimization of calculation algorithms, the formation of a decision-making environment for the pilot-they are already implemented in the Su-57.
The next step will be to optimize the use of unmanned aircraft systems. But, in my opinion, it is impossible to say that in aviation, artificial intelligence will replace the pilot. I believe that some experts are deeply mistaken when they say that the pilot is a brake on the development of aviation, because he is not able to think as fast as a computer. Because all the fullness of decision-making and responsibility in aviation will always be on a specific person - the pilot or operator.
Of course, artificial intelligence will develop, but it will be a system that is focused on creating an acceptable environment for human decision-making. I think it is premature to talk about leaving the decision to use weapons that have different powers to the computer. But such systems are extremely in demand in aircraft navigation, piloting in difficult conditions, restrictions of takeoff and landing, when a person is physically unable to respond adequately due to fog, rain, changes in terrain. Here, artificial intelligence should be implemented in the form of an environment that creates comfort for the pilot.
- In your opinion, the sixth-generation fighter will not be unmanned?
"It's an open question. Many believe that the sixth-generation aircraft is a plane without a pilot. But this does not mean that this plane is not controlled by a person. It may not be manned, but it will be manned anyway. And where he will be at this time-in a neighboring aircraft or on the ground - it does not matter. He will still be able to manage it.
In my opinion, the nearest prospects are connected with universality, when both manned and unmanned aerial vehicles, which are very similar in their design and combat capabilities, will be able to fly in the same combat order.
- What promising projects should receive funding within the framework of the next GPV?
- I would like the new GPV to reflect the work on creating a promising sixth-generation aviation complex, a promising helicopter for army aviation, a promising long-range aviation complex and, accordingly, weapons for these aircraft. And of course, the tasks for unmanned aircraft will be finalized.
- How is the work progressing on development of a new strategic bomber, the PAK DA?
- The contract is concluded. The consolidation of the efforts of the two leading ministries -the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Industry and Trade - on this project should lead to a natural result in the form of a new aircraft. So about the PAK YES, everything goes on as usual, samples of individual subsystems are made. To date, I do not see any concerns in the implementation of the project.
- What will be a promising helicopter for the army aviation?
- We see global trends in helicopter construction - this is a transition to increased speeds, other take-off and landing options, new tasks that must be solved by army aviation, taking into account the development of communication and defeat systems. This search for a compromise between the needs of the Ministry of Defense and the capabilities of industry is the palliative for the board of the military-industrial commission.
- What kind of helicopter it needs to be replaced?
- I would not say that it should replace. it should complement the existing fleet of the ministry of defense, in which the update of all helicopters was very successful. These samples will be used for a long time. The Ka-52 helicopters, as well as the Mi-28NM, which are now in the final stage of testing, will fly for at least another 30 years.
- Will the ship's Ka-52K be mass-produced, since there is no carrier for it yet?
- the ka-52k is now also in the final stage of testing. This is a helicopter, as you know, with folding blades and a steering column in order to be operated from the deck. As for the carrier for the helicopter, the Ministry of Defense should think about it. the department should decide on the list of ships from which the ka-52k is planned to be used, because not only group, but also single use is possible there. And from the point of view of creating a helicopter, there are no unsolvable problems - as a helicopter, it will take place, there is no doubt about it.
- What other combat aircraft will soon join the Russian Aerospace Forces? For example, the Su-34M?
- the su-34 in the form in which it is currently delivered has proved its relevance and effectiveness, including outside of russia. The Ministry of Defense, realizing that the new weapon requires refinement of this aircraft, and the aircraft is in principle able to solve problems more effectively, set the work to modernize this aircraft in the form of the Su-34M. this, first of all, equipping it with new types of weapons and refining its flight and navigation systems. such development work is underway, and according to its results, the su-34m aircraft will be delivered to the troops.
- and what about the mig-35-its deliveries will continue or production is idle at the mig?
- The Ministry of Defense has signed a contract for the implementation of experimental design work on the creation of the MiG-35, and it is being implemented. Within the framework of this contract, prototypes of both the MiG-35 and MiG-35UB aircraft were created - a two-seat version for combat training tasks. The machines are manufactured, presented to the test center of the Ministry of Defense, and are being tested. by and large, "mig" is quite actively working on this project, let's say, the main one for it. Foreign partners are interested not only in the options for upgrading the MiG-29 aircraft, which is recognized as quite successful, but also look back at the MiG-35, assessing the possibilities of its use. india is interested in both aircraft.
MiG's production sites are not idle. in particular, the plant in lukhovitsy plans to mass-produce the il-114-300 aircraft, so that all specialists are involved for their intended purpose. the production facilities of the mig corporation and the plants that are part of its cooperation are able to meet the requirements of not only our ministry of defense, but also foreign customers, based on the volumes that will be announced.
- Do MIG have any new projects? Maybe drones will be created?
- At the moment, MiG is working on creating a light strike aircraft, which can be both manned and unmanned. It is conducted on an initiative basis and is not funded by the state. But the company sees the market and focuses on it.
- How do you generally assess the volume of export orders at the enterprises of the aviation industry? Does this provide financial support?
- Our aircraft are in demand abroad, despite the difficulties that Rosoboronexport has with the formation and passage of applications and payments for the work performed. i think it will be so in the near and long term.
- The main export product is the Su-35?
- Now the Su-35 is simply the most significant monetary contract that has passed. If everything goes as it should, there are good prospects for the Su-34, Su-57 and others, including transport aircraft.
- And how did the coronavirus pandemic affect the production of civilian aircraft?
- In the civil aviation industry, the situation is more complicated against the background of the decline in air transportation. People began to fly less, and this affects the demand for aircraft. This applies to all aircraft manufacturers around the world. Although, oddly enough, there are pluses in this situation – aircraft of the SSJ-100 type, due to their dimension, were extremely in demand in the vast expanses of our country. Their load is on average 90%.
The next task of "Superjet" is to master regional transportation, bypassing the Moscow aviation hub. This year, airlines on SSJ100 aircraft have opened more than 20 new regional routes bypassing Moscow. The regions and the federal center are ready to support such routes in order to increase the transport mobility of the country's population.
On the basis of the Red Wings airline, a reference operator of Russian aircraft is being created, which should provide Russian equipment with high flight time and regularity, help to survive all the "childhood diseases" of new models. This year, it has already received the first three SSJ100s and will receive another one before the end of the year. "Azimut" to the existing eleven SSJ100 acquired two more. Aeroflot Group will add five new SSJ100 aircraft to its fleet of 54. Work on the contract continues.
Further deliveries, including export ones, will depend on the market situation. But the potential of the platform of the Sukhoi Superjet 100 is. Flight tests of the updated SSJ100 version are already underway.
- How is the work on domestic composites for the MS-21 and other aircraft going?
- we have decided that during the construction of the ms-21 we will rely on our own production and our own capabilities, taking into account the existing groundwork. Rosatom and our science, including the capabilities of our petrochemical industries, were involved in this. Individual elements of the wing using completely domestic composites are manufactured and tested. We hope that next year the MS-21 aircraft will be equipped with a fully domestic composite wing. thus, we will completely eliminate dependence on foreign suppliers. The first take-off of the MS-21 with the Russian PD-14 engine is also a landmark event. the beginning is made.
- do you have to deal with sanctions and refusals to supply units manually?
- we can not exclude any sanctions or the influence of individual states on the composition of production cooperation. all projects for the creation of civil aircraft started at a time of smooth business relations with all supplier countries, without political background. i can assure you that at the level of enterprises, the relations of business partners are maintained, but they are forced to listen to politics. Of course, there are situations when in real time you have to make point decisions - to open work and replace certain components on the plane. This applies only to the civilian segment. In the production of aircraft and helicopters for the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, we are fully protected from any sanctions impact.
- Have the problems with the replacement of Ukrainian components on Antonov aircraft also been solved? How do you manage to keep the fleet of Ruslan aircraft in good condition?
- There are more than 20 such aircraft on the territory of Russia: some of them are owned by the Ministry of Defense, some are owned by private companies. Taking into account the specifics of our relations with Ukraine, it was decided that the maintenance of aircraft for the needs of the Ministry of Defense will be carried out by our enterprises. now our task is to localize 100% engine repairs in the country, and we will solve it.
- Is a plane being prepared to replace the Ruslan?
- Not a replacement. In the interests of the Ministry of Defense, it is planned to create a promising aviation complex for military transport aviation (PAK VTA). Currently, research work is being carried out, which will allow us to determine the appearance of the aircraft and its main technical characteristics: what are the main tasks it will solve, what will be the dimension, how many engines will be installed. Not the fact that there will be the same dimension as the AN-124. The tasks for the production of this aircraft in the future will be assigned to the aircraft manufacturing plant in Ulyanovsk.
- More than a year has passed since the first flight of the IL-112B - when will it be able to continue flight tests?
- IL-112B made its first flight and was significantly improved. The second flight was moved not only because of these improvements, but also in connection with the repair of the runway of the VASO plant airfield. the strip was being refined and the aircraft was being refined. There should be no rush in this matter, it's not about the number of flights, but about their scoring. if the activities carried out by the ilyushin company on this aircraft show their effectiveness, the il-112b is able to catch up with the test program next year.
-Among the promising projects in civil aviation, the supersonic business jet is of particular interest — is there a future for this idea?
"All over the world, there is a tendency for people to move much faster in time and space. the first wave of supersonic aircraft has passed, now the second is coming. Most States are engaged in this topic, and we are no exception. TSAGI is actively working on this, drawing the contours of the aircraft and determining its characteristics, taking into account the market demand. This is by no means a repeat of the Tu-144 - a beautiful aircraft with an interesting fate. now it is, first of all, a business-oriented project that should be in demand both within russia and abroad. I think we can build a supersonic passenger plane.
"and the engine for it?"
- We have a groundwork in the engine industry, which will potentially allow us to implement supersonics on a passenger plane.
- Will the state give money for this or do you need a private investor?
- I would say otherwise - in case of interest of private investors, there is always an opportunity to organize a partnership with them and determine the potential royalty based on the results of the project.
- So you believe in this project?
- It is really feasible. Yes, it will be an expensive plane, so the business model is very important here. It will need to be worked out in detail with the starting customer. But from the point of view of the technological reserve, we have all the competencies. If we calculate this business correctly, enter it correctly, it will be an absolutely marketable product.
