General Director of the UAC — on the pressing issues of the aircraft industry, operational tasks and strategic plans of the corporation
Vadim Badekha, who became the head of Rostec's United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) in November 2024, spoke in an interview with RBC about the company's historical "bumps", work with the state defense order, cuts and when aviation will become fashionable.
"At one point, everyone decided to fly in foreign cars
— Before joining the UAC, for almost two years, starting in January 2023, you headed another "aviation" corporation— the United Engine Company. What has been done and what has not been done?
— Of the operational tasks that I faced in the UEC, I would single out three key ones. The first is to significantly increase the volume of engine production against the background of its needs. It was an operational task that had to be solved. The second was related to the financial and economic condition of the UEC: in 2022, for the first time in a long time, the company suffered a loss at the end of the year (16.071 billion rubles), and this, of course, became a problem for the corporation, since it has always been a profitable and efficient export-oriented company. Finally, the third task was related to speeding up work on the PD-8 engine, since this project significantly affected the timing of the implementation of the import-substituted SJ-100 program. We have completed these tasks, and the UEC has adapted to the new conditions.
Perhaps not everyone has managed to do much of what was planned, but the UEC team is very effective, continues to work, and I am sure the results of some initiatives will be visible later. It is very important that after you leave, everything remains effective and necessary to make everything work.
— And now comes "day X" when you receive an offer to transfer to the UAC. Who did you get it from?
— It was a collective decision. I did not expect this offer, and I cannot say that I dreamed of heading the KLA.
Historically, the UAC has always been at the forefront: all the complexities, industry problems, "bumps", problems of partners and suppliers, financial difficulties, legacy — accumulated mainly on the UAC. Life was much easier for us in the UEC for the UAC.
Comparing the UAC and the UEC, the latter has historically been more fortunate, since it did not fail in the 1990s. It so happened that the UEC had good export orders — the planes flew anyway, the engines were purchased for replacement in the existing fleet, and they were repaired. There was a "ground-based" company, which greatly supported enterprises when aircraft engines were converted, for example, into ground-based ones for pumping gas. It was a very good financial cushion for the UEC. The enterprises and, most importantly, their teams were in good, stable condition. There were no failures, there were no interruptions.
Unfortunately, the situation in the UAC was different — a number of enterprises were going through difficult times in the 1990s. Since at one point everyone decided to fly in "foreign cars", we got "fallen" enterprises in Ulyanovsk, Voronezh, Kazan, it was hard. Accordingly, this has led to the accumulation of very serious problems.
— Understanding from the outside how the UAC works, are you still surprised by something in its condition that you did not expect at all?
— There is such a thing as "running and shooting at the same time." In the case of the UAC, it's "run, shoot, and write a letter to your wife." You have several major projects under development and launching on the market at the same time. If we are talking about the civilian part, these are the MS—21, SJ-100, IL-114-300. They are all at a crucial stage of testing, and their mass production is being prepared in parallel. There are no such analogues in the world. Boeing or Airbus are not working on multiple new models at the same time.
All this is happening at the low base of the entire civil aviation industry: in the 1990s, not only specific plants fell, but the entire chain of cooperation. She had not created anything in the civil sphere for a long time, it was necessary to restore all these competencies, to teach how to create not just aviation equipment, but modern civil aviation equipment that meets all international standards.
At the same time, its development is underway and the most serious task is to increase the volume of relevant products. This year we will have a record for the number of aircraft produced — we expect an increase of more than 30%, but the previous year was also a record. This is mainly due to military equipment. The growth due to the "civilian" part will be later — it's just that technically we are only now getting aircraft certification. Production of serial machines has been organized, the first ones will be produced this year, but shipments will begin next year.
— Taking into account these introductory questions, what are your priorities?
— The number one task is to complete the certification of civil aircraft as soon as possible, their entry into mass production and deliveries. The second is to ensure the growth of all traditional products, primarily in the interests of their own. And the third is to solve the financial and economic problems that have accumulated in the holding.
"The task is to find a middle ground"
— When a new top manager comes in, a shareholder can say, "I will definitely help with money and other resources," or "figure it out for yourself." What did your shareholder broadcast to you at the entrance?
— The shareholder of UAC is Rostec, which is very deeply involved in operational activities. Assistance is provided regularly, both administratively, financially, and organizationally...
— But the head of Rostec, Sergey Chemezov, said last year that in the current conditions, "the economy is the tenth thing for the military," and the profitability of industries that work in the interests of their own is at a critically low level. Does the KLA also have problems with the "war economy"?
— The state defense order accounts for more than half of our revenue. Everyone, including the Ministry of Defense, understands that it should not be unprofitable. At the same time, we also understand that the ministry must save money, including by reducing the price of products.
The task is to find a middle ground. So that there is a profit that will be used, if necessary, for example, to expand production.
Initially, the GOZ was based on a system where you have to prove your cost and only what you have proved is accepted from you. That is, not commercial mechanisms and investment potential, but cost formation and verification. But what's next? The embedded price does not always keep up with the one that develops after the fact. And we have all seen this today: for example, many materials have increased in price very much, above the standard level.
Now, together with the Ministry of Defense, with the personal participation of Sergey Viktorovich [Chemezov], we are working to change the situation. To make the system more flexible. I am sure that all solutions will be found.
— Since at least 2020, the UAC has generated losses of at least 30 billion rubles per year. By the end of 2024, they decreased to 14.2 billion rubles. How did this happen? Should we expect this trend to continue by the end of 2025?
— Export shipments had a positive impact on the results of 2024. And this is a very good result, given that the high rate had an extremely negative impact. Interest payments alone amounted to approximately 50 billion rubles. But we set ourselves the task of completing this year with a result of about zero. Either a little bit in the plus, or a little bit in the minus, but about that.
— What allows you to expect that you will change the long-term trend of unprofitability?
— This is a set of events. We are implementing a large-scale program to improve the company's efficiency. It involves two areas — how to spend less and how to earn more.
— What will you spend less on?
— Previously, at our own expense, we fully financed those costs that exceeded the amount of financing that was basic to the projects. Now we rigidly set the task to meet the limits that are allocated.
We are also implementing a program to optimize the number of management personnel.
"How much is that?"
— 1.5 thousand people, or more than a quarter of the managerial staff. We are talking about Moscow. These are not design bureaus, they are purely managerial staff.
But we are not just talking about reducing staff, but about increasing efficiency and productivity, reducing losses, which account for a significant share of our production activities. This will be part of the expected effect for our indicators. Our goal is to increase labor productivity by 30% by 2030. The second half is to increase profitability. With the support of Rostec and the Ministry of Industry and Trade, we are doing a lot of work with the Ministry of Defense to bring prices to real prices. In other words, we are trying to make sure that by the end of this year the number of unprofitable contracts is close to zero or minimal.
"Everything should be profitable"
— In 2020, the government recapitalized the UAC by 250 billion rubles. Then the total portfolio of commercial loans was reduced from 600 billion to 300 billion rubles. By the end of 2024, the corporation's long—term liabilities reached 880 billion rubles, short-term - 1.3 trillion rubles. What is the total volume of UAC's commercial loan portfolio today?
— The volume of commercial loans in the UAC portfolio has not changed significantly relative to the period of recapitalization and does not exceed 300 billion rubles. The rest is loans for the fulfillment of government military contracts. Accordingly, as the state Budget has grown, the Ministry of Defense has begun to apply a credit scheme to a greater extent than direct financing.
— How do banks behave now in relation to state-owned companies that work with state-owned enterprises?
— No special discounts. There is, of course, a concessional lending program, in which Promsvyazbank mainly participates, but this is due either to the fulfillment of the State Budget or other government instructions. NOVIKOV also offers his shoulder here. Most banks generally operate on commercial terms.
A special feature of our business is that working with export contracts implies the mandatory attraction of debt financing: foreign customers pay only 15% of the advance payment, and in some countries this is fixed at the legislative level. Accordingly, we lend the rest of it. And today, there are already decisions in this direction and mechanisms for subsidizing interest rates on such loans. This year we will begin to feel this effect. This is not yet included in our profit model, but if everything works out, we will additionally save from 5 billion to 10 billion rubles per year on rates. Export is a serious area of government activity, the promotion of state interests. And all over the world, exports enjoy government support. We have very good export prospects, a very large portfolio of new orders, and, accordingly, we will actively use all forms of government support.
— Which areas are profitable for the UAC now?
— I believe that everything should be profitable. Today, when we receive the same amount of civilian defense orders in addition to the existing volume of the state defense order, which is not falling and will continue to grow, we simply have to earn money. And today, the whole focus is on this: increasing the efficiency of activities, which should lead to an increase in the profitability of these activities.
We need to learn how to earn more. Today, our main challenge is cost reduction and working with suppliers. We are paying great attention to this now. We have been very busy auditing suppliers and have adopted a strategy that we are developing "second" alternative suppliers wherever possible.
— Are these Russian companies or from friendly countries?
— These are suppliers within the country. Today's challenge, when it was urgently necessary to organize a huge number of new production facilities, and deeply modernize and expand existing ones, has reached its peak. At the same time, we have enough production facilities in Russia.
We are currently working very actively, for example, with small private companies that have metalworking equipment. We help them reach the "aviation" level, help them get certified if necessary, and place orders with them for the manufacture of parts for our aircraft.
— From which industries have they shifted to you?
— These were mostly enterprises related to mechanical engineering in one way or another. There are hundreds of them in the country. These are small private companies with 10-20 machines each. Private investors are small, not large corporations: they were sharpened for combines, cars, etc. This is a global trend where an automotive company dreams of joining Boeing or Airbus. And today we see the huge potential of this market.
We have radically changed our approach to working with suppliers, because we consider ourselves responsible for what happens there, and we support them, starting from the development stage, the content of their work, and, if necessary, we involve institutes and experts. We are actively involved in the stage of assistance in the certification of their products. Rosaviation helps us a lot here: together we are building a system so that suppliers can certify their product range on time and with high quality. If necessary, we also assume the financial responsibility of the supplier. There are examples when our suppliers are experiencing difficulties with the supply of metal, electrical and radio components, and something else. We solve their problems, go to the Ministry of Industry and Trade, and get metal for them. Sometimes we reach the fifth generation in order to help.
— Are there any competencies that cannot be replaced yet?
— Russia is the only country in the world where a fully import—independent aircraft is produced. There are no other such countries in the world. Neither the USA, nor France, no one.
— Will the MS-21-310 also be completely import-independent?
— Absolutely completely. Even from friendly countries. In the aircraft that is currently being tested (a prototype of the MC-21 medium-range aircraft took to the skies for the first time from the airfield of the Irkutsk Aviation Plant of PJSC Yakovlev on April 29. — RBC), of the foreign ones, only three minor systems remained — drives, brakes and generators. Russian systems simply did not have time to put on this particular board, in other aircraft even these systems will be domestic.
— How does this import substitution affect the cost of aircraft?
— Today, we set ourselves the task of ensuring that the cost and cost of import-substituted aircraft is efficient for operation and comparable to the cost of foreign analogues. It doesn't work out quickly and head-on, also for obvious reasons, because when we talk about the first batches, they are always more expensive. And the reasons why our prices are more expensive are all clear: the serial number is still low, the interest rate, investments in the creation of completely new systems and units. This is what we have to work with. We have a cost reduction program for both the MS-21 and SJ-100. I think that we will pass the main stages by 2030.
But this is a big, very serious task. We treat it as a key one, because for a market story, we need airplanes with an effective cost. Today, we are talking with Aeroflot, other operators, the Ministry of Transport, and the Federal Air Transport Agency on a commercial basis — we are agreeing on the commercial efficiency of our aircraft based on the operator's business model, and we are trying to get into it as much as possible.
"Domestic technology should have priority"
— And how market-oriented can we call the idea that Sergey Alexandrovsky, the head of Aeroflot, has just voiced: to regulate the ratio of Russian and foreign aircraft at the state level if the latter become available in Russia again? How do you feel about this idea?
— I definitely don't treat it in such a way that a wizard arrives in a blue helicopter and says, "That's it, now half of the park is yours." The task of developing our own civil aviation industry is a strategic state task. We saw this with you when in 2022, first of all, sanctions were imposed on civilian aircraft, which had nothing to do with them at all. And it became clear to everyone, I hope, once and for all, that this is something that cannot be lost if we want to remain an independent great power. We have already done this once, unfortunately, in the 1990s.
When we talk about marketability, it doesn't mean that it should be cheaper than a 20-year-old Airbus in any case. That's how we lost the industry for the first time, when we started importing dead "foreign cars", which were also financed by a low leasing rate. What have we got? Destroyed factories, lost competencies and the need to restore all this at public expense. Hundreds of billions of rubles have been spent to rebuild everything from scratch. Although if the industry had lived and evolved... Look: the most popular Airbus and Boeing models were created many, many decades ago (the first flight of the Boeing 737 in 1967, the Airbus 320 in 1987. - RBC). But without creating models from scratch, they modernize existing projects, such as the Boeing 737. We would have done the same with our own aircraft: the Tu-214, Il-96, and IL-114 were built in the same years and would now be in no way inferior to their foreign counterparts. All this, of course, must be taken into account. At the same time, we understand that the efficiency of using our vessels must be justified for our operators.
Here are two examples. The SJ-100 is one of the most flying aircraft today. The operators are very satisfied, the flight time of the fleet today is not inferior, and sometimes even exceeds the flight time of Airbus or Boeing. The second example is about economic efficiency: the aircraft that we supply have been and will remain the property of the Russian Federation. That is, it is a kind of property that has a residual value and that can be further operated, unlike foreign aircraft. When companies purchase the right to own them for ten, 12, 18 years through leasing, they pay the entire cost, after that the plane departs for the next cycle, the same 12-17 years, it is operated there, in a cheaper segment. And the operator has nothing left here.
We believe that it is necessary to introduce a mandatory requirement for the proportion in the fleet — Russian and foreign. And domestic technology should have an absolute priority, because otherwise we will continue to buy 20-year-old Airbuses, pay it is unclear to whom, and then again experience problems with their absence. As far as I know, work is currently underway to legislate this proposal on behalf of the President.
— Has the attitude of private business towards the UAC changed? Or does everyone formally say: "We support you" — but are they still waiting for the return of Airbus or Boeing?
— The task of increasing trust in the UAC is one of the key tasks facing the company's management. Unfortunately, it will not be possible to do this quickly, because, on the one hand, we had a difficult period, and on the other, everyone in our country understands two things: football and aviation. The latter is even great, because everyone is interested, and there is a lot of support. It was very important for us to get the planes up. And thank God it turned out that way. We have lifted the SJ-100 with Russian PD-8 engines, and two Russian-powered aircraft are already flying today. The MC-21 was lifted. And this is the first step to increase trust.
— How do you answer the question of whether it is safe to fly on Russian planes? In 2022, there were especially frequent theses about the cannibalization of parks, that everything would get up and go nowhere ...
— Unfortunately, we often find a skeptical position. But I believe that only through deeds can we prove our worth. The only thing that really puts a lot of pressure on all of us is the very difficult deadlines for the implementation of all projects. But they were set for objective reasons. As you correctly say, this was due to the events of 2022, when a situation of uncertainty arose and transport problems had to be solved quickly. And therefore, a very difficult super task was set for the entire industry. We didn't manage to meet all the deadlines.
But no one has ever created anything in such a short time, they were initially not just stressful, but almost impossible. But they weren't taken from the ceiling. This was due to the fact that by 2022, both the MS-21 and the SJ-100 had actually been certified. It seemed that it was possible to quickly change some foreign blocks, etc. But the suppliers and manufacturers of these systems were not in the best shape... In this sense, we were significantly helped by the fact that initially the task of restoring the civil cooperation system and creating the necessary Russian units was set by the country's leadership even before the start of the CIO, in 2019. Then, with the support of the Ministry of Industry and Trade, work began on a number of import substitution systems. In 2022, we all had to mobilize a lot, but at least we already had a base to build on.
— In May 2024, the Ministry of Industry and Trade adjusted the plan for aircraft production by 2031 down to 994 aircraft. As of June 2025, are you still within the approved parameters or is there a possibility of further reduction?
— This program is rather a guideline for all participants, a goal. It is primarily necessary in order to determine investment resources and production plans. At the moment, the pace of implementation of this program is determined based on the actual state of the park at the moment. When we discussed this program, we were concerned that a very large number of aircraft had to be produced in a very short amount of time. This, of course, looked like a mobilization task from the state, but it probably did not fit particularly into the business logic of either the operators or us. You can't tell an operator, "Listen, here are 100 planes you don't want to take from us this year." There has never been such a thing in history. Therefore, the program exists today, it is feasible, everyone is working on it, but it is already being transformed into specific contracts and deadlines. In other words, there is no such thing as saying that so many MC or so many "Superjets" will be delivered every year. In principle, it will change, and this is normal.
"Today we know what needs to be done"
— Does UAC currently have customers for civilian products from other countries?
— We have a number of negotiation tracks that are underway with several countries on our civilian products.
— Is this the CIS?
- no. And in this case, I'm not talking about the purchase of our aircraft, I'm talking about projects related to the possible localization of our aircraft.
— To assemble a conditional MS-21 in Latin America? Is this beneficial for the UAC and our aviation industry?
- of course. Moreover, I would like to say that all major large countries are striving to obtain one or another level of localization, and this is becoming one of the trends in international cooperation in the field of aviation, including military-technical cooperation. We believe that this will allow us to expand our sales markets.
If we talk about foreign buyers of aircraft directly, they will appear 100% after the practice of operation in Russia appears. Moreover, using the example of the SJ-100, large-scale sales abroad were realized almost simultaneously with sales in the domestic market. Unfortunately, this also led to certain problems: at that time there was no prepared maintenance system, and the car was new, with "childhood diseases". Today, at least we know what needs to be done, and we won't repeat the mistakes we had on the SJ-100. The key task is to form an after—sales service system at the same time as developing the aircraft. We even come across questions: "Isn't it too early for you to start thinking about after-sales service here? Your plane hasn't flown yet. Why do you need warehouses now? Why do you need spare parts now?" But it only looks rushed, but it's actually very important as part of the system.
— In 2021, your predecessor, Yuri Slyusar, spoke about the preliminary cost of developing the MS-21 at 220 billion rubles. His calculation is that in order for the UAC project to pay off, it is necessary to produce 72 such aircraft per year. What is the scale of the investment in the project as of June 2025?
— The amount of investments has not increased dramatically since then, not by several times, plus or minus in the same values. This is due to the fact that at the time of 2021, the aircraft had already been created and the main investments in it had already been made. Currently, the main work was related to the import substitution of systems and blocks, but they are not that expensive.
In terms of government investments in development work, this is a direct ruble, but there is a production facility - these are NWF funds, and they are refundable. And when we talk about the cost of the aircraft today, we must provide for the return of these funds. How much production is needed? We have divided the investment program into two stages. Today, for us, the production volume that allows us to be operationally profitable is 36 boards per year. All production cycles have been adapted to this task. The task will be to increase — we will increase, it will be necessary to complete the capacity.
— In 2024, the UAC was supposed to deliver the first Tu-214 aircraft, and in 2025, the corporation is to deliver four more aircraft. Has the first side been delivered to the customer? When are you planning to deliver the remaining four?
— For the Tu-214, we have obligations to government customers, in particular the SLO "Russia", we fulfill their needs as a matter of priority. If we talk about the aircraft that we make for civil aviation, the first ones will appear in 2026, they will be delivered to airlines.
The modernization program of the Kazan Aviation Plant (manufacturer of the Tu-214. — RBK) is in the final stage. The expansion of production volumes will allow us to balance the production of medium-range aircraft, distributing the load between the Kazan and Irkutsk (manufacturer of the MC-21. — RBC) aviation plants. In addition, building closer inter-factory cooperation will allow for more flexible management of the capacity balance. To maintain, if necessary, the pace of production at one enterprise with the connection of the capacities of another, and vice versa. This applies to all businesses. This is, among other things, one of the ways to increase the internal integration of UAC enterprises, and now we are not using this internal potential to its full potential.
— How is the "eternal" dispute with Aeroflot over the number of crew members in the Tu-214 being resolved? They say they refuse to accept this plane with a flight engineer in its composition. Is the aircraft being modified to meet the needs of the national carrier? When will this work be completed?
— Such work is underway today. Earlier, similar work was done with the Tu-204 aircraft, an aircraft with two crew members of the Tu-204SM was created and certified (the Tu-214 was created on the basis of the Tu-204. — RBC). We believe that the modernization of the Tu-214 will be completed within a few years.
— Are other potential customers of the Tu-214 ready to fly with a three-member crew? YuVT Aero, for example?
— Yes, they are ready.
— So if the first planes don't go to Aeroflot, no one will be upset?
— That's right. Aeroflot is understandable: in 2022, it was not clear which aircraft would be in what stage of readiness in three years. Therefore, just in case, everyone ordered everything. And today, airlines have the opportunity to choose. Aeroflot is betting on the MC-21 today, and the Tu-214 is more of a backup option for them.
— In 2026, UAC will deliver the first three IL-114-300 turboprop aircraft. Will Aurora Airline be the operator?
— There are several potential interested parties for this car, including the Aurora. While the final launch operator has not been determined, negotiations are underway. Maybe we'll even have a queue. The price for the first planes is excellent, because it corresponded to the cost of an analog at the rate of 55 rubles per dollar. We believe that the ATR-72 is a turboprop short-range passenger aircraft developed by the Franco-Italian ATR consortium. — RBC) it's an analog for us and we have to focus on its cost.
— The UAC is to assemble and deliver 14 long-range IL-96-300 aircraft. Are you planning to transfer some of these aircraft to commercial operators, such as Aeroflot? Or will they all join the special flight unit "Russia"?
— Today we are making these planes primarily for the SLO.
— Are there any plans to create a fundamentally new long-range aircraft for Russian civil aviation?
— Let me remind you that we used to carry out such work together with our Chinese comrades. And it is in this format — partnership — that it looks commercially effective, because the needs of our country alone are not enough to implement such a project. Despite the changes, however, the topic remains relevant and, one way or another, I think we will approach it.
In general, there was no understanding of the engine before for this kind of Russian project. The situation with the PD-35 engine is currently under development. And we believe that when the engine appears, it will be 100% possible to talk about a long-haul aircraft. We should have our own aircraft in Russia. Although the nuances are already beginning there. What kind of plane is this? Either it's a very wide fuselage and, relatively speaking, it's an IL-96 with a 35 engine, or an average class of aircraft, slightly larger than the MC-21...
— How are relations with the Chinese developing now?
— The potential for renewed cooperation exists on this track. It all depends on their position. They have indeed been very actively cooperating with us, and cooperation continues in some areas. There was a period when they actively looked at the use of European components in the C919 (a medium-range, narrow-body passenger aircraft developed by COMAC, considered a competitor to the Airbus A320neo and Boeing 737 MAX. — RBC). It seems to me that we will be able to cooperate with them in a more mature format... They have certain successes, we have certain successes, there is a subject for cooperation. But we don't need to just get funding from them for any of our developments. We are interested in joint projects, joint developments, where we can get something, for example, a new market.
— Which other countries besides China are currently most interested in "aviation sovereignty"?
— India. We have good experience with them (traditionally, the UAC cooperates with India on the supply of military equipment, and in 2023, the possibility of localizing the production of the SJ-100 at the facilities of HAL was announced. — RBC). Unlike most Western competitors, we are ready to offer our Indian colleagues not only a product, but also a full-fledged partnership to create a product using their design and production competencies. We are ready to work in a format that allows the Indian side to develop its aviation industry.
"The atmosphere in which designers work is important"
— By 2022, UAC planned to build a single aircraft design center with an area of 200 thousand square meters on the territory of the Sukhoi Design Bureau in Moscow. It was supposed to be introduced in 2025. Can we say that the UAC has abandoned this project?
— No, we haven't abandoned this project. We believe that the atmosphere in which our fellow designers work today is very important. One of the key tasks is to maintain our level of competence as a developer in leading positions. Preserve the potential and lay the foundations for the future. Attracting young people means modern working conditions so that there is a queue for us. And I can say that today our working conditions in terms of wages are among the best in Moscow.
— Among which companies?
— Among those who need engineers.
— But salaries are not the only factor, especially for young people...
"Exactly. That is why we are not abandoning the creation of a modern design center. He is currently at the stage of calculating the pre-project.
— Do you have enough staff for all your tasks? Where do you get them from? Besides salaries and a future design center, what can UAC offer to make an IT specialist come to you instead of dreaming about Yandex? When will aviation become fashionable?
— Today, the measures taken by the government and our shareholder Rostec are enough to say that universities are training a sufficient number of good specialists. A very good program "Wings of Rostec" has been implemented. It allows students and target students to pay a good scholarship. Additionally, starting from the first year, they have the opportunity to receive an internship at least one day a week either at our production facility or at the design bureau. They are already involved in the current production process, receiving assignments, receiving, earning money. They have a very good career track.
— Do you see a growing interest in the industry?
— Definitely. Now they want to work in the aircraft industry no less than in Soviet times. We looked at the statistics on graduates of specialized departments and specialized universities: there are not so many who leave after studying completely on the side or nowhere. It is very important for an engineer to know what to do. We have a lot of examples where talented guys went to a higher salary in another industry, but then returned with the wording that "it's not interesting there." And we try to take not the number of conditional "diggers" in aviation, but the quality. We need leaders, stars, to whom we give everything.
— But there is no shortage of stars?
— He is always there, but this is already a question for us inside.
We must create such conditions so that people, firstly, become our stars, and secondly, so that they stay with us. And considering that our team is quite large, to put it mildly, almost 110 thousand people, I believe that we should get all the best employees from within our company.
— But to become a star, most of the time you need the opportunity to interact with international experience. How much can UAC give me, a young specialist, access to international technologies now?
— Everything that happens in China is quite accessible to us. But I can say for sure that today our aircraft manufacturing technologies are definitely world-class. You can go somewhere, see something and make sure that we are not just not worse, but better.
"In three to five years, the civil block should be able to conduct an IPO"
— What is your benchmark as motivation or attitude? "In ten years, I want to run a company like Boeing"?
— I believe that UAC is still a world-class company. In terms of combat aviation, we are no longer inferior to the world leaders, and in some cases even surpass them. And in civilian terms, with the launch of rhythmic production of new airliners, in five years we will not be inferior to either Boeing or Airbus in terms of efficiency in all key areas. Yes, they will be bigger than us for objective reasons, in particular in terms of market size, but if we take into account the level of technology development, the level of our developments, production efficiency, and the level of customer satisfaction, then we should definitely be at the competitive level with Boeing and Airbus. Moreover, I will say that no one has such a nomenclature as ours. We have turboprop aircraft, civilian jetliners, fighter aircraft, military transport aircraft, special forces, reconnaissance aircraft, etc. The entire aviation nomenclature is in one country.
— With this design — the civil and military blocks — do you allow additional private capital to appear in the KLA?
— We set ourselves the task in such a way that in three to five years our separate civil block should be able, conditionally, to conduct an IPO. In other words, it's not literally an IPO, but it should be so well structured, efficiently and transparently managed, and it should have such an effective business model that, in the event of a decision, we could go public and attract investments. It is not our goal to get investors — this will be determined by Rostec, we say that we must be ready for this.
— How strong is the interest from private investors in the aviation market?
— I believe that it is both possible and necessary to enter civil aviation. This is a very predictable, stable, and interesting market, where, on the one hand, there is a high—tech segment, and on the other, a near—government segment. We already have private investors (Yakovlev securities and the parent UAC separately), and no one is asking for a refund.
"Civilian drones in the process of formation"
— The UAC showed a flight sample of the S-76 unmanned transport system. How important is the direction of civilian drones now for the corporation?
— We have decided to form an unmanned development area in the UAC. Historically, this segment in Russia was more attractive to private players, the UAC was less involved in this segment and dealt only with serious large-class combat vehicles. But today we understand that this area is becoming extremely promising for us. In fact, we are talking about creating a platform that is open to external partners. What does it mean? We think it's very important to get some teams, some solutions, right now. And now we are looking at who exists in the market to give them the opportunity to work with us.
— How will it be arranged? Are you buying a team's development and giving it your design capacity?
— Today we have a team that deals with the S-76. They are a very good team, young guys, our Sukhov team. The project is quite successful, technically well done, and it has good prospects. But we are well aware that in civilian drones today, one project is not enough. We see prospects for involving teams in cooperation here. We have serious design, production, and administrative resources. That is, a platform, something that no one else has. We are ready to try and watch projects, if it "flies", we will do it together.
— How much investment are you planning for this area?
— We will have several billion for such projects.
But the projects are different, and the needs for them are different. To be honest, we haven't fully understood the market today, it's still forming. I think everyone saw a surge when everyone started doing unmanned taxis, vertical takeoff... And now we are seeing a number of bankruptcies of similar companies on the global market. There were also technical problems, as well as with the market itself and its regulation. Therefore, I believe that civilian drones are currently in the formative stages. What will happen there? No one can say yet. So far, everyone is trying. That's why we have shaped our policy so that we are open, we are engaged in a number of projects.
— How fair is the price tag for such projects now? Their boom at some point increased the value of such teams and startups x2 and more.
— Today, everything has become easier again, because the market has begun to form and many are engaged in developments in this direction. There was, of course, a certain hype. But even we spent much less money on creating our own unmanned complexes than many colleagues. This is largely due to the fact that we just had some things "in the database" by definition. No one knows the laws of management better than we do. Where people break up 10-20 of their drones until they figure out where they went wrong, we don't even allow such mistakes at the design level. And, strictly speaking, the opportunity to produce a product not somewhere out there, but at home is much faster.
— What other direction is missing in the UAC that would capitalize on you?
— I think that all the main directions have been formed. Another thing is that one cannot keep up with global trends, even where they may not end in anything. You and I have artificial intelligence to live with. You and I have hydrogen, we have electromotion, we have passenger supersonics, the stratosphere, and vertical takeoff... Although, of course, no one can say with certainty what exactly will fire.
