Test pilot Sergei Bogdan basked in the glory and was a moment away from death
He was applauded in Le Bourget, Dubai and at MAKS, and in November he became an audience favorite in Zhuhai, China, where he was called "the second Gagarin." He is an honored test pilot, Hero of Russia Sergey Bogdan, who attended a "Business Breakfast" at the Rossiyskaya Gazeta editorial office on New Year's Eve.
How many pilots are left?
Sergey Leonidovich, drones with no people in their cabins are increasingly involved in combat operations. Maybe a pilot is an endangered profession?
Sergey Bogdan: Where it will be necessary to make intellectual decisions, the flight crew will still be present - one thing does not interfere with the other. Tactics will begin to provide for joint combat formations of manned and unmanned systems, where the role of unmanned aerial vehicles ranges from clearing airspace to reconnaissance and target designation, covering from attacks by fighter strike groups, etc. The most serious, dangerous areas will be covered by unmanned aerial vehicles. This is a normal evolutionary path. Moreover, the transition process will be lengthy. Take the same Su-27 that was created in the 1970s. The next-generation aircraft was lifted 35 years later. Americans now have the "freshest" F-15 - 35 years old. The planes that are being built now, these platforms will fly for a long time. Based on the Su-57, I think it's been 50 years. They will increase intelligence and upgrade weapons. Drones are developing rapidly, and they will fit seamlessly into aviation, which is good. It would be bad if we had a directive order: we are closing manned aircraft and switching to drones. This has already happened in history, when aviation was reduced and missiles were made instead of airplanes. No one is going to close anything now.
A curious experiment was conducted in America. Five aerial battles between an artificial intelligence and an experienced pilot were conducted on an F-16 fighter simulator. The AI won outright. Experts say that neural network algorithms can conduct aerial combat much more efficiently and at the same time relieve pilots. What do you say?
Sergey Bogdan: I'll say that it's not bad. When the development of drones reaches a level where they can, for example, show their advantages in close air combat, it will generally be great. What's to stop sending a group to cover against fighter attacks in the form of drones? Pilots should treat this normally. For example, we used to have traffic police officers who served both in the cold and in the heat. And then they were replaced by surveillance cameras, which record everything and generate hundreds of times more revenue. Of course, someone's bread is being taken away, but the tasks are being solved. Personally, my attitude is this: if tasks are solved more efficiently, then why not? And the fact that someone will remain unemployed at the same time, I am convinced that there will be enough work for everyone.
There have been reports that Elon Musk's Rocket plane will be able to fly from London to New York in 36 minutes. What is your attitude towards this?
Sergey Bogdan: Musk has done a lot of interesting things. And if the level of technology allows us to achieve this, why not? At one time, we also created supersonic aircraft. But taking into account the price-quality indicators, we came to the conclusion that this was not promising, and these topics were closed.: First, our Tu-144, then the French-British Concorde. Back then, it was related to disasters and cost-effectiveness issues. But, it seems to me, the main thing is profitability. If the project proves to be paying off, the direction will move forward. So far, the question is how much demand all this will have. Today, people are willing to pay $20 million each to fly into space privately, and there are plenty of people willing. Perhaps there will be those who will be willing to pay a lot of money to fly across the Atlantic in 36 minutes.
On the eve of the New Year, the news spread around the world about the first flight of some incredible Chinese fighter "White Emperor", which is supposedly the 6th generation, and without a tail. Did you hear that?
Sergey Bogdan: Indeed, information is being discussed in the aviation community that two new aircraft were launched in Chengdu and Shenyang in China at the end of December. One is definitely manned, judging by its appearance, the second is still unclear - there is no video on which the cockpit would be clearly visible. One of the planes, apparently the J-36, is very large, it has three engines, two with side air intakes and one on top - this is an extraordinary, even unprecedented layout. The second one, the J-50, is kind of what they call it, it's a little smaller, but it's still big. The purpose of these aircraft is difficult to characterize at the moment, but both use inconspicuous layouts, and the one with three engines is apparently a long-range strike aircraft, which apparently performs the function of track control by mechanizing the trailing edge of the wing. In the second device, the function of the vertical tail is probably performed by the horizontal tail of a specific design. Therefore, there are many questions, at least as far as they can conduct a maneuverable dogfight, what kind of maneuverability they can have.
Judging by the unverified information, there is a possibility that these aircraft are part of a new system, a complex that will include many types of aircraft, and most likely we have not seen everything that the Chinese side is doing in this direction. At the moment, nothing more specific can be said due to the very small amount of information.
I am Su, the fighter
There is a lot of debate in the West: is the Su-57 that you are currently testing a 5th generation aircraft or is it a 4+?
Sergey Bogdan: The criteria for the 5th generation aircraft were formed by the Americans at one time, because they are often half a step or one step ahead in this regard. This is low radar visibility and cruise supersonic. The aircraft completely satisfies the first requirement. The radical solution is that the weapon is inside. Plus, there is an aerodynamic layout of a special shape, wing lines at certain angles, and so on. And although this is a negative factor for obtaining the specified aerodynamic characteristics of the aircraft, we have successfully resolved this issue. At the airshow, any specialist or spectator can assess the maneuverability of the aircraft and its handling.
As for the characteristics of the power plant. It is being worked out further. An improvement process is underway to create a next-generation engine. But even with the engine that is currently installed on the Su-57, we have closed a number of issues. I would not mention other factors. The aircraft has a highly intelligent defense system, very powerful sensors that see the enemy and see targets. It receives information from a number of sources in various ranges. Overall, I think the car turned out great.
Have you ever flown on similar planes from NATO countries?
Sergey Bogdan: Secrets are guarded very carefully. Even at air shows, where some models are presented, they try not to let Russian pilots get close to them. Although I managed to visit the F-35 stand in Farnborough. I noticed that they presented a very conventional cabin. It was possible to see some ergonomic aspects, but they didn't really demonstrate how avionics works.
As for flying in enemy cars, it so happened that I often flew abroad as part of delegations. In the same Venezuela, my colleagues were able to fly on the F-16, on the Mirages. At that time, I was very busy, constantly flying the Su-30, which had to be demonstrated to a potential customer.
And who, in your opinion, will win the duel?
Sergey Bogdan: In Libya, we conducted aerial battles against the Mirages, in Venezuela - against the F-16. And our Su-30, the 4th generation aircraft, left them no chance either in terms of radar detection characteristics or maneuverability. Literally 30 seconds - and that's it, we gain tactical superiority in the air.
The crazy speeds, the incredible figures that the pilots are doing at the airshow today - how dangerous is it? How likely is a pilot error that could lead to a tragedy, and are the protective systems capable of preventing it?
Sergey Bogdan: From the point of view of danger, tension, this is not something supernatural. It's like driving through a city in heavy traffic at a speed of 80-100 km/h. It's not even 200 km/h, there are already many factors that don't depend on you. So the situation is quite controlled. Aircraft of the 5th generation, 4+, the same Su-35, are safe enough from the point of view of piloting. The aircraft has many systems that will prevent it from entering any critical modes. Let's say there is a task to complete the Nesterov loop. The Su-17, which I once flew in the regiment, has a very tight range: you have to put it in this loop in altitude in the range strictly from 1000 to 2000 meters, and at speeds from 950 to 980 km/ h. If it turns out to be less, you will lose speed at the top, and the stability and controllability of the aircraft may become critical. If you enter it at a higher speed, you may involuntarily exceed the overload and strength limits.
As for the danger, flying on the Su-57 is not something supernatural. It's like driving through a city at a speed of 80-100 km/h.
And you can put a modern airplane in a loop at 300 km/h or any other speed up to supersonic, and it will be safe. The pilot does not have to comply with the law of control in terms of angle of attack, overloading - the aircraft itself will limit this overload when necessary. The pilot no longer needs to pay much attention to piloting. He has many other tasks. The indicators show information for the use of different types of weapons, it is necessary to turn on something, put a marker on the target, etc. Yes, at this time you can lose speed, sometimes even to zero, and the plane will start falling down. But it still won't lose control. On planes of previous generations, if you exceed the permissible angle of attack, it goes into a tailspin. And then you'll take him out 5 km with the best outcome, and it's good if you can get him out in the end. And if a modern airplane has lost speed and is falling, you lower the handle, add the revs, and it's controlled again. Everything was created to ensure that you perform combat missions.
But the women - then
And what is the age limit for admission to the test pilot school?
Sergey Bogdan: The age limit, I'll say this, in Soviet times was 28 years old, and you had to be qualified at least as a 2nd class pilot. I received the 1st class as a senior lieutenant, I was 25 years old at the time.
Do they take people with tattoos?
Sergey Bogdan: As far as I know, this issue has been treated critically before. I don't know right now. This should be asked at universities.
And the height? Can a guy under two meters become a pilot?
Sergey Bogdan: There is a limit to the maximum height limit while sitting. At our Borisoglebsky College, it is no more than 93 cm. Because you won't get into the cockpit any further according to your profile. And in some other schools, the requirements are milder, because they trained for other types of aircraft, which have a larger cabin.
Do you have any bad habits?
Sergey Bogdan: I haven't been drinking alcohol for 20 years. I tried cigarettes too, but I immediately realized that it wasn't mine.
Do you believe in omens?
Sergey Bogdan: Like all pilots. For example, it is believed that a new piece of clothing should always be flown around in a less serious flight. If you put on new gloves, something will happen. Or boots, overalls. It's especially important to put on a new helmet or oxygen mask - well, it's like that, from the evil one. There are also traditional points - for example, you need to inspect the plane before flying. It would seem that why, there are so many people working there, everyone is responsible for every inch, but still the pilot should come up, inspect carefully, walk around - this is the attitude before the flight. For me, for example, it is very important to stroke the plane, pat it like a horse on the rump, and tune in with it.
What is your attitude towards female pilots?
Sergey Bogdan: I respect you. But that's not the question, but why? We have 250-300 business trips a year. The pilots are constantly separated from the main base, constantly relocating. Who will raise the children? Grandmothers? Of course, if a girl says I want to, period, then for God's sake, no question. But it's also physically very hard work. If the plane is overloading at 7 or 9, then you're overloading. And how can a fragile girl with this wildest overload spin dogfights?
At one time, Americans flew to Lipetsk. And now they are preparing the F-15 for flight, removing the fuel tank that is unnecessary in battle. It's huge, five meters long, and heavy. And they drag him: on one side, the technician is a man, and on the other, a girl. She's in agony, because they can't show that she can't handle it. Well, who needs it? We Russians don't understand this. If a woman lifts a sleeper, then she needs help. And for them, take it yourself.
In general, it's like a question: do we need women's hockey? Need. But only women should play with women. And if they play against men, it's hard and unfair. Similarly, no one will create any airplanes with low characteristics for a woman.
In the regiments, 90% of pilots don't like skydiving. There are mandatory jumps, two per year. Many limit themselves to them. And you?
Sergey Bogdan: Skydiving is great if you jump regularly. And this is at least once a month. If it happens a couple of times a year, then no pleasure. There is a sense of danger. But if you start jumping regularly, you fall out of the flight schedule. A vicious circle. But I have 77 jumps, which is slightly more than the usual number of pilots in the regiments.
Do test pilots die more often than army aviation pilots?
Sergey Bogdan: I don't have such statistics. I can only say that out of 10 people who graduated, five died. But two of them are in situations unrelated to aircraft testing.
"I dreamed of becoming a border dog"
Who were your parents?
Sergey Bogdan: Unfortunately, Dad passed away very early, at the age of 44. He served his military service in aviation, in the aeronautical unit in the city of Volsk, Saratov region. And he always talked about aviation with great warmth. And it has somehow been absorbed into me since childhood. After completing his military service, he entered the Polytechnic Institute in Saratov and met his mother there. According to the distribution, she was sent to the city of Voskresensk, Moscow region, to a house-building plant. Dad also transferred to Moscow, to the Moscow Automobile Institute. He studied during the day and worked as a taxi driver at night. Then, after graduating from MADI, he became the head of a motor transport workshop in Voskresensk. There was a huge Afanasyevsky quarry, where limestone was mined for cement plants, it was exported by BelAZ and KrAZy, and he commanded them. I remember driving a BelAZ when I was 9 years old, although, of course, there was an experienced driver sitting next to me. I learned how to drive a car when I was 6 years old, and I started driving on my own on country roads from the age of 11.
But instead of the BelAZ driver, they decided to become a pilot.
Sergey Bogdan: There were many options. When I was very young, I really liked border guards. At one time, in my early childhood, I even dreamed of being a border dog. Then he became a border guard. But in the end, aviation prevailed.
Your father spoke warmly about aviation, and you became a pilot. And why didn't your children connect their destinies with the sky?
Sergey Bogdan: My son was with me everywhere from an early age, including when I served in the Trans-Baikal Military District. He's seen a lot. I did not interfere in his choice in any way. He also went to MADI, where his grandfather studied. I was pleased with that. Why not aviation? I can tell you some things about garrison life, and you will understand a lot.
We lived in Mongolia, Choibalsan village. I flew there for three years. The garrison consists of 10 houses, the smoothest steppe. You can see these houses from 40 km away. On Sunday, you wake up and look outside: the sun is shining, the yellow grass is swaying. When you go outside, it's minus 35. There is no snow - frost, wind. Two apartments were allocated for shops. They sold cereals, dried potatoes and carrots, and canned chicken, which no one could eat after a week. Meat was only available in winter, because there were no refrigerators. And you can only buy half a carcass. I put this piece of pig on the balcony and somehow chop it up slowly. And for seven months there is no meat. Once every three weeks, a head of cabbage the size of a grapefruit was given to the family. And they cut it up for the children like an orange and gave it as a dessert. With the arrival of spring, an IL-76 arrived once every three weeks. It was called "vitamin flights". Within a week, the women's council began compiling lists, which were updated daily. I should have come to the roll call. For three days, according to these lists, round-the-clock duty was arranged in the entrance. And then, in 17 garrisons within a radius of 180 km, cars transported what they had brought along dirt roads.
Horror. But is it different now?
Sergey Bogdan: There are almost no Russian troops abroad now.
If you saw an old woman with a scythe
Have you ever felt scared in the sky?
Sergey Bogdan: There were such moments. But not to say that it was fear. Fear is a kind of chemistry when adrenaline is released. And when some kind of misfortune happens during the testing of experimental aircraft, you just realize that if this car gets lost, it's a failure. And everything will only continue in a few months, when the next one leaves the factory. And there are strict deadlines that are set by the customer, the Ministry of Defense, etc. And you understand how this is... well, not catastrophic, but extremely critical for the program.
And then something happens in flight, and you suddenly realize that everything is dying. For example, one day at an average altitude, one engine just turned off. I start running it, but it doesn't respond at all. And then the second engine's air intake switches to flight mode at high supersonic, which means it doesn't have enough thrust. I'm revving up and I feel like he's going to snap and turn off too. Anyway, I can't get to the airfield. I do this, and that, and the third and fourth. And I think, holy shit, this time I'm really going to have to leave you by slamming the door. It is not fear that arises, but a feeling of annoyance. That is, there is enough time to think, but you can't do anything anymore. And I descend, descend, reach a low altitude, and there the density is higher, and suddenly this thrust begins to suffice. As a result, I'm slowly pulling towards the airfield without losing speed. You know, it's like a dying light - one minute it's going out, the next it's barely smoldering and hasn't gone out yet.…
Or another case. I was doing training in front of MAX, and at an altitude of 2,300 meters, when performing the "Bell", the engine collapses - the blade flies out, the temperature there immediately exceeds a thousand degrees, and since the thrust is asymmetrical, the plane begins to rotate and go into a tailspin to the ground. For 35 seconds, he falls tail first from the gained height. And he doesn't react to all my actions in any way. But again, not to say that there is fear - I understand that there will still be time to jump. But then again, the feeling of annoyance: well, is it really now?
It becomes clear that I will not reach the airfield. And I think, holy shit, this time I'm really going to have to leave you by slamming the door. There is not even fear, but a feeling of annoyance.
We were also maneuvering, and suddenly, out of nowhere, a plane flew straight over me, about 5 meters away. Try to imagine: a huge colossus is right above your head. The cabin went dark for a moment because he blocked out the sun. I had a feeling that here I was walking, and some kind of grandmother appeared in a hood, which suddenly straightened out, and lo and behold, it was an old woman with a scythe. I saw it very clearly, and now this picture will probably come up all my life.
And how do you feel when you land? There is silence around, trees, flowers are blooming, people are walking… How is life perceived after such situations?
Sergey Bogdan: I don't want to use big words. Then you realize that everything is God's providence. So, there's a reason for you to have such a sign. Think about it, maybe you did something wrong.
Igor Yelkov, Igor Chernyak
