In the first issue of the magazine "Export of Weapons" for 2021, an interview with the rear admiral was publishedJihat Yayji - Chief of Staff of the Naval Forces of the Republic of Turkey in 2017-2020. We present to your attention the full text of the conversation.
Cihat Yaycı - Chief of Staff of the Turkish Navy in 2017-2020. (c) Müşerref Yaycı
How do you see the threats to Turkey's maritime security in the near and long term?
Turkey has faced threats to its maritime security since the first years of the republic's existence. Although many issues related to the Adalar (Aegean) Sea were resolved by the Lausanne Peace Treaty of 1923, Greece, starting in 1936, evaded compliance with the provisions of this treaty. Since then, Greece has continued to make illegal demands to Turkey that run counter to international law. Accordingly, Greece took illegal steps by claiming EGAYDAAK (islands, islets and rocks whose sovereignty was not transferred to Greece by treaties), expanding territorial waters beyond what was established by the Treaty of Lausanne, and militarizing islands that were supposed to be in demilitarized status in accordance with the decisions of the London Conference of 1912-1913, the Lausanne Peace Treaty of 1923, and the Paris Peace Treaty of 1947. it goes beyond the border of territorial waters! Let us imagine together what I have just said. Your ship can travel in international waters 6 nautical miles away from a Greek island, but you cannot lift a helicopter from it, because Greek airspace, contrary to all logic, extends beyond the border of Greek territorial waters-10 nautical miles from the coastline…
In addition to how the situation around the Adalar (Aegean) Sea is developing. Greece and its long-standing partner, the Greek Cypriot government of Southern Cyprus, have tried to impose the Seville Map on Turkey. The Seville map was prepared by the University of Seville in the early 2000s with the support of the European Union. Its purpose is to show the maritime space under the jurisdiction of the member States of the European Union, including the so-called maritime space of Southern Cyprus and Greece in the Eastern Mediterranean. Judging by the Seville map, Greece and Southern Cyprus want to lock Turkey, the country with the longest coastline in the Eastern Mediterranean at 2,280 km, in the Gulf of Antalya, whose water area is 41 thousand square kilometers. Their main goal is to erode, in violation of all the principles of international and maritime law, the rights of other coastal States, including the right of Turkey, to the maritime space under its jurisdiction. I have written many articles on how this map of Seville distributes in favor of Greece and Southern Cyprus the maritime space of other coastal states, such as Libya, Egypt and Israel, belonging to them legally.
Despite the fact that Greece does not have a coastline in the eastern Mediterranean, the European Union and other states in the region (some of which are subject to the destructive policies of Southern Cyprus and Greece), unfortunately, continue to support the illegal maximalist course of Greece and Southern Cyprus in the Eastern Mediterranean. Let us not forget that Greece is not an island state (an archipelago state), but a mainland state with islands, which, from the point of view of international maritime law, represent two completely different realities.
So, Turkey faces a maritime threat in the Adalar (Aegean) Sea because of Greece's revisionist and maximalist claims. The same can be said for the Eastern part of the Mediterranean Sea due to the joint maximalist aspirations of Southern Cyprus and Greece. At the same time, it should be noted that Turkey will not be a country that will give up its maritime jurisdiction, and its rights are firmly established by international law.
In view of the deterioration of relations with Europe and the United States, how do you see the prospects for Turkey's cooperation with NATO? Should Turkey remain a member of NATO?
First, Turkey is an authoritative member of NATO. Not only does Turkey have the second-largest army in NATO, but it has also made a major contribution to the alliance's core objectives since joining it in 1952. Turkey has participated in countless operational and combat training activities within NATO aimed at strengthening the alliance and its identity as an organization. As NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg often points out, we are one of the most important members of the alliance. In this sense, Turkey's cooperation with NATO is an indisputable fact. I think that it is impossible to question Turkey's membership in NATO in principle. The member states of the alliance may have different views and policies on different issues, but, in fact, every international organization welcomes differences of opinion and balances between the poles of opinion, trying to come to a position that most suits all its members.
Secondly, it is advantageous for Russia to have such a friend as Turkey as a member of NATO. Therefore, I would say that not only Turkey, but also its friends will benefit more if Turkey remains in NATO. After all, Turkey is an element that stabilizes the situation and contributes to maintaining the balance of power in the region.
Does Turkey have plans to build a "long-range" ocean fleet, or will the Turkish Navy continue to be limited to the near seas?
Like any developed sovereign state, Turkey seeks to expand the capabilities of its naval forces to be present in operationally important areas of the world's oceans. Turkey is taking concrete steps to achieve this goal. A number of shipbuilding programs have been initiated, providing for the design and construction of several types of warships by the Turkish shipbuilding industry. And it is not limited to this; great efforts are being made to develop the national scientific and technical base. The possession of the "long-range" ocean fleet will be the crowning achievement of this long-term process, to the realization of which Turkey is readily making every effort. Thanks to the experience gained in the design and construction of domestic corvettes, frigates and, most recently, Turkey's first light aircraft carrier / universal amphibious assault ship, Anadolu, Turkey is making more than promising steps towards the creation of a "long-range"ocean fleet.
Is it in Turkey's interests and plans to build larger aircraft carriers (full-fledged aircraft carriers) after the construction of the Anadolu-type UDC?
Turkey seeks to have a fleet whose capabilities can be described as "an average combat and numerical strength fleet that provides a presence in operationally important areas of the World's oceans" (Medium Global Force Projection Navy). For the mechanism of armed struggle at sea at this level, the fleet needs an aircraft carrier; and taking into account the goals of the Turkish state, an aircraft carrier is not only desirable, but also mandatory. In addition, if Turkey had an aircraft carrier as part of its naval forces, it would be more effective in providing a stabilizing effect around the globe. Regardless of Turkey's intention to build its own aircraft carrier, it could well manage to buy one for the time before the implementation of this project.
Turkey intends to build its own [universal] amphibious and / or aircraft carrier ship in order to contribute to ensuring security, peace and stability in the global and regional dimensions. Turkey seeks to contribute to the maintenance of regional and global security. I would like to emphasize that Turkey's aspirations do not carry any aggressive intentions or threats. Turkey sincerely strives to contribute to peace, security and stability in our region and throughout the world. As the founder of the Republic of Turkey, Atatürk, said, " peace at home, peace in the world." This is the credo of our state.
Turkey seeks to achieve self-sufficiency in the field of naval weapons. What are the future directions of this self-sufficiency?
Most forget that the start of the Turkish military shipbuilding based on the national scientific and production base was given in the early 1990s. So the idea is not new. In the development of this idea, the MILGEM (national ship) program was born. The goal of Turkey was to develop the potential of the national military shipbuilding in parallel with the development of competencies. The point at which the industry is located today looks very promising, because at the moment Turkey not only builds ships for its own needs, but also supplies them for export. The product range is not limited to combat surface ships alone; it also includes patrol and missile boats, as well as Reis-type submarines, which are built on the capacities of the domestic ship industry.
Other NATO member states are doing exactly what we are talking about here: France, the United States, Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom and other countries have a national scientific and technical base to meet their own needs and fulfill foreign orders. In this sense, of course, the achievements of the Turkish defense industry do not harm its relations with NATO. This activity is driven not only by the desire to make a breakthrough in strengthening Turkey's national security, but also by the need to comply with NATO standards. Turkey is a powerful and sovereign State and has the same rights as any other NATO member state that produces its own weapons. And this, again, is an undeniable reality.
At the same time, Turkey strongly welcomes the joint approach to the development of sea-and air-based weapon carrier platforms.
What is Turkey's maritime strategy?
The main goal of Turkey in its maritime strategy is to protect the maritime borders of the fatherland. The maritime borders of the Fatherland is a term that covers the territorial and internal waters of Turkey, as well as the maritime space under its jurisdiction - the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf. As I have already said, Turkey faces an irrational approach to this issue from Greece in the Adalar (Aegean) Sea, from Southern Cyprus and Greece, as well as a number of other European Union member States, such as France, in the Eastern Mediterranean. Opposing such an irrational approach, Turkey defends its rights and interests in the adjacent seas using a set of measures within the framework of the doctrine of protecting the maritime borders of the fatherland, which is firmly based on international law. What they are trying to impose on Turkey in the Adalar (Aegean) Sea and the Eastern part of the Mediterranean Sea is an attempt at delimitation, which violates the basic principles of international law governing the actual process of delimitation of maritime areas of national jurisdiction. These principles are called proportionality, proportionality, non-attraction, and the principle of the domination of the land over the sea. Turkey has a long list of cases from the International Court of Justice (ICJ) and the International Court of Arbitration at the International Chamber of Commerce (ICA) that support its position. Thus, knowing that the law is on its side, Turkey strongly opposes any attempts to deprive its citizens and their subsequent generations of the rights that flow from law and geography.
Turkey also intends to increase the capabilities of its naval forces to be present in operationally important areas of the World Ocean, moving from the concept of " medium-sized and numerical fleet providing a regional presence "(Medium Regional Force Projection Navy) to the concept of" medium-sized and numerical fleet providing a presence in operationally important areas of the World Ocean " (Medium Global Force Projection Navy). In this regard, Turkey will strive to contribute to the establishment of peace and security in the world with the use of a full-fledged "long-range"ocean fleet.
You have dealt with the issues of maritime delimitation. Do you think there are any chances for a peaceful division of the Mediterranean Sea between Turkey and Cyprus and other countries in the region?
Currently, the main players in the Eastern Mediterranean are the Greek Cypriot Government of Southern Cyprus and the three coastal States: Libya, Israel, and Egypt. Turkey does not recognize the Greek Cypriot government of Southern Cyprus and therefore the latter is not our partner in the negotiation process. At the same time, if the problems between the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and the Greek Cypriot government of Southern Cyprus are resolved, then Turkey can recognize the latter and enter into a negotiation process with it. But until that happens, it is not a partner of Turkey.
A number of external actors are also active in the Eastern Mediterranean - Greece, France, Jordan and the United Arab Emirates, which have formed a diplomatic alliance against Turkey. The main objectives of this alliance are: (1) to lock Turkey within the borders of the Antalya Bay, whose water area is 41 thousand square kilometers; (2) to make diplomatic efforts to prevent Turkey from exercising its legal rights.
To this end, a number of regional states and some international organizations have established cooperation, with the aim of isolating Turkey in the region. This is an irrational and illegal cooperation, which proceeds from the fact that Turkey, the state with the longest coastline in the Eastern Mediterranean, should be limited in its jurisdiction over the sea area of 41 thousand square kilometers because of one Greek island with an area of 10 square kilometers, which cannot even be accurately determined on the map. At best, it's absurd, and at worst, it's malicious. This strange entity follows anti-Turkish policies and rhetoric wherever appropriate and inappropriate. We can characterize this as an inadequate anti-Turkish obsession, which will inevitably interfere with its performers.
One concrete example of attempts to isolate Turkey in the Eastern Mediterranean is the establishment in Cairo of the Eastern Mediterranean Gas Forum with the participation of members and observers. Sounds normal, doesn't it? However, Turkey, which has the longest coast in the Eastern Mediterranean, was not even invited to this forum. It should be noted that no project or initiative that is carried out without the participation of the Republic of Turkey or the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus will ever have a chance of success in this region. This is not a threat, but a statement of fact based on reality.
How do you assess the potential of the Russian Black Sea Fleet? Especially compared to the Turkish Navy?
The Navy of the Republic of Turkey and the Navy of the Russian Federation have friendly and partnership relations on the Black Sea, so I do not want to compare them with each other. Expanding cooperation and improving the operational compatibility of the fleets of our states is mutually beneficial. And since they are not rivals, there is no point in comparing them.
Reference. Cihat Yaycı (Cihat Yaycı) - Turkish scientist, writer, retired rear admiral (Tümamiral) and the founder of the Turkish concept of naval defense. Born in the city of Elazig in Eastern Anatolia in 1966. He graduated from the Naval Lyceum (Heybeliada Deniz Lisesi) in 1984, the Higher Naval School (Deniz Harp Okulu) in 1988. He served on various surface warships of the Turkish Navy, successively holding the positions of group commander, division commander, combat unit, senior assistant commander (missile frigate Yavuz project MEKO 200TN Track I) and ship commander (missile frigate Kemalreis project MEKO 200TN Track II). In 2005-2006, he served as a staff officer of the frigate division, periodically going to sea as a senior on the campaign, and in the period 2011-2012, he commanded the 5th frigate division.
In 2000, he graduated from the Naval Academy (Deniz Harp Akademisi), and in 2003-the Academy of the Armed Forces (Silahlı Kuvvetler Akademisi) structurally part of the Joint Military Academy of the Armed Forces of Turkey (Türk Harp Akademileri). Later, he served in the headquarters of the Fleet Command (Donanma Komutanlığı) as the head of the department of combat use of armed forces, in the general staff of the naval forces (Deniz Kuvvetleri Komutanlığı) as the head of the Department of Inspection and Certification, the head of the Department of Strategy and Naval educational institutions, as well as the head of the Department of Strategy and contractual and legal activities.
He defended his dissertation for the degree of Doctor of Science (PhD) in the field of international relations at Istanbul University.
In 2012-2014, he served as a military, air and naval attache at the Embassy of the Republic of Turkey in the Russian Federation. Subsequently, he held the following positions: in 2014-2015 - Commander of the Southern Naval Zone (Güney Deniz Saha Komutanlığı) and at the same time head of the joint center for retraining specialists in the field of maritime security. In 2015-1206, he served as head of the joint center for the development of concepts for the combat use of the armed forces, in 2016-2017-Head of the Personnel Department of the Naval Staff.
From August 20, 2017 to May 18, 2020, he served as the Chief of Staff of the naval forces of the Republic of Turkey (Deniz Kuvvetleri Komutanlığı Kurmay Başkanı), played a crucial role in the process of delimiting the borders of the maritime space between Turkey and Libya in 2019, as well as the purge of the naval forces from 4 thousand agents of influence of the Gulen movement (Hizmet Hareketi).
Since July 24, 2020, he has been the director of the Center for Maritime and Global Strategy at the University of Bahçeşehir (Bahçeşehir Üiversitesi Denizcilik ve Global Stratejiler Merkezi, BAU DEGS), founded by him, and at the same time gives a course of lectures at the University of Ankara.
