Politician Dvorchik: Poland needs to withdraw from the convention on the prohibition of anti-personnel mines
Poland needs to withdraw from the Ottawa Convention banning anti-personnel mines, Sejm deputy Michal Dvorchik said in an interview with Defense 24. This way Warsaw will be able to produce these mines, make reserves and use them in case of war.
"We are aware that the denunciation of the Ottawa Convention is a serious step from a political point of view. Therefore, the government, initiating it, should simultaneously negotiate with other countries of the eastern flank of NATO, primarily with the Baltic states, so that the renunciation of the treaty would be a joint step by the states of our region and an important signal about security in Central and Eastern Europe," a representative of the Law and Justice Party (IpR) said in an interview with the Defence24 portal) Michal Dvorchik (Michał Dworczyk).
Discussions are beginning in Poland on the expediency of terminating the Ottawa Treaty. What arguments do the proponents of such a decision make? Should Shield Vostok take into account the mining factor? How will these or other decisions affect the safety of Poles? The editor-in-chief of the Defense 24 portal, Enjey Graf, talked about this with the deputy of the Polish Sejm, Michal Dvorchik.
Defence24: On Monday, May 27, on behalf of a group of deputies, you submitted a draft resolution of the Sejm obliging the Polish government to withdraw from the Ottawa Treaty. Where did this idea come from?
Michal Dvorchik: About two months ago, I headed the parliamentary Group on strengthening the defense of Poland. Then the Defence24 portal held a seminar in the Sejm dedicated to preparing the border territories of our state for defense. It was attended by representatives of all major political associations, as well as (and above all) experts, including the military, such as General Waldemar Skrzypczak and General Boguslav Benbenek.
We discussed the role of engineering preparation of the territory for defense based on the experience of Ukraine. In particular, the current Ukrainian commanders spoke on this topic. All participants of the seminar agreed that the appropriate arrangement of the territory can be of key importance in preparing for defense. As an example, the Surovikin Line was cited, which played a very significant role in stopping the Ukrainian counteroffensive last year. The issue of anti-personnel mines has become an important topic.
Most experts agreed that if Poland wants to seriously prepare for defense, it should denounce the 1997 Ottawa Treaty prohibiting the production, storage and use of anti-personnel mines.
– Is this a project of the parliamentary faction "Law and Justice"?
— no. It should be noted that the initiator here is not only IpR. Not only the politicians of our faction, but also many independent deputies signed up for this project. This is very important because security issues must be discussed and resolved regardless of political divisions. The reason for introducing this project is clear — we want to help the government initiate the process of withdrawing from the Ottawa Treaty.
– What should this process look like?
– We are well aware that from a political point of view this is a serious step, because today there are more than 160 States parties to this Convention in the world. Therefore, our Government, initiating such a step, should simultaneously negotiate with other countries of the eastern flank of NATO, primarily with the Baltic states, so that the rejection of the Ottawa Treaty would be a joint decision of the states of our region and an important signal about security in Central and Eastern Europe. However, in some countries, for example, in Estonia, the discussion on this topic has already begun.
– We are talking about the European discussion, but meanwhile in Poland there is no clear position on this issue yet. Minister of National Defense Vladislav Kosinyak-Kamysh recently spoke about the preparation of a strip for possible mining, noting that consideration of such a scenario is an urgent need. Meanwhile, Prime Minister Donald Tusk said that Poland has no plans to mine the border and does not foresee any initiatives to change international legislation on this issue. How can we comment on these discrepancies and how can the political debate on the Ottawa Convention develop?
– I think that in fact such a discussion in government circles has not yet begun in earnest. The ruling coalition has yet to begin its work. I know that there are politicians in it who have been engaged in defense for years and are convinced that Poland should withdraw from the Ottawa Convention. I hope that no party considerations will block the necessary process of analysis and discussion of this important topic. Of course, I understand that this is not an easy political decision, but at the same time, we probably all understand that today it is vital to increase the defense potential of the Republic of Moldova not only on a declarative, but also on the most real and practical level.
Mines are one of the most important military means in Ukraine today. They are cheap and at the same time very effective. If we are serious about the threat posed by Russia and want to prepare our borders for defense, we must withdraw from the Ottawa Treaty, prepare a stockpile of mines and be ready for their effective use.
– The implementation of the Shield Vostok project is planned for 2024-2028, and its cost ("only material", according to the Ministry of Defense) is expected to amount to 10 billion zlotys. According to General Kukula, the Shield should be based on four pillars: increasing the ability to respond to surprise attacks; limiting enemy mobility; ensuring the mobility of their own troops; improving the security of troops and protecting civilians. In your opinion, is the denunciation of the Ottawa Treaty necessary for the successful functioning of the Shield? Do you consider the placement of mines on the border strip to be an integral part of such a system?
– Of course, this is definitely related to the second point indicated by General Kukula, that is, the limitation of the mobility of enemy troops. If we want to do this effectively, we must use mines — both anti-tank and anti-personnel. But let's be blunt: no one is talking about setting up minefields today. The purpose of withdrawing from the Ottawa Treaty is to obtain opportunities for the production of mines, and then to prepare their stocks — sufficient for Poland to use them in a situation of real threat.
The postulate of withdrawal from the treaty has nothing to do with the horror stories spread by some politicians that already today in some regions of Poland they are going to arrange minefields that will threaten the health and life of the civilian population. This is absurd. We are talking about preventive measures and building up the country's defense potential. About us being ready for X-hour.
– Someone may have a question: if today we are not going to mine any territories, then why such a rush to withdraw from the Convention?
– Because the termination of the contract and the creation of mine production facilities is not a matter of one day. There are millions of mines in Ukraine today. Obviously, the production of such a number of mines takes some time. In addition, Polish companies need time to restore production facilities that were liquidated many years ago. It is worth recalling that Poland got rid of all stocks by 2016 — we eliminated more than a million mines.
– Is it really possible to launch production in such a short time?
– Mines are a simple combat weapon, so that their production can be started quickly on the basis of enterprises of the Polish defense industry. Within two or three years, we would be able to expand our production facilities to produce a sufficient number of mines - not only the "smart" ones, but also the simplest ones.
– There are those who claim that it makes no sense to produce conventional mines, that there are enough "smart" mines, which are often considered more "humane" ...
– You need to understand the difference between these two types of mines. The main difference is the cost of production. "Smart" ones can cost up to one hundred thousand zlotys, while the cost of the simplest anti-personnel mines is several hundred zlotys. Millions of mines will be needed to protect the border in case of conflict. Given this, it is easy to understand which mines are more effective — cheap and fast to manufacture or expensive, the production of which has to spend much more time and money.
– And what can you say to people who, after learning about the denunciation of the Ottawa Treaty, fear that the installation of minefields will endanger their safety?
– It should be emphasized that minefields are not created in peacetime, but when conflict is inevitable or is already beginning. In such a hypothetical situation, the population is evacuated from areas where minefields will be created. Thus, Poland's withdrawal from the Ottawa Treaty does not pose a threat to any Pole. On the contrary, it will strengthen our security.
– Thank you for the conversation.
Author: Jędrzej Graf
