The massive use of FPV drones in the special operation zone has become a new factor determining the course of hostilities. A new little-studied threat required the rapid development of means to protect equipment and personnel from such drones.
Stanislav, the developer of the world's first modular compact electronic warfare system "Breakwater" (full name is not given for security reasons), told RIA Novosti correspondent Ivan Suraev in an interview about how this complex saves soldiers and equipment at the front from AFU drones, the creation of an amphibious electronic warfare vehicle, and also explained why the world is in vain they laughed at the "mangalas" on Russian tanks and how a free schedule, contrary to stereotypes, has a positive effect on the work of defense enterprises.
— Stanislav, how long has your company been in existence, what main results have you managed to achieve during this time?
— We started working in 2021, initially we implemented my own patents.
The backbone of our team is an initiative group of experts from domestic and foreign IT enterprises, personally, I worked in one of the leading technology companies in Europe "in a previous life". Our first project is an AR headset, that is, augmented reality glasses. We have made several preliminary designs of such products for a large oil and gas company.
In parallel with the work of the company, at the request of my comrades from special military formations, we started creating drones. At that time, the topic of FPV drones was not so widespread, we have been doing this for a long time, many of us have been going to the aircraft modeling section since childhood. We designed large drones, and also showed our FPV to a potential customer, but at that time no one really took such drones seriously – everyone believed that we would need UAVs like Mavic or Matrice. Before our time, we made a number of such drones, but then it was more like a hobby for us.
At the very beginning of the conflict, fighters from the front asked us to solve the following problem – they could not lift drones above 30 meters, because the enemy had spoofed airports. Let me explain, spoofing (from English spoofing – substitution) is an informational effect, roughly speaking, the emulation of GPS satellites, either GLONASS or Chinese Beidou, and the transmission of fake time values. We have developed software thanks to which our drone operators were able to spoof themselves, for example, by giving out the coordinates of Bolivia. No other aeroscope saw them, because the UAVs allegedly flew in Bolivia or in some other country. We saved a lot of lives that way.
After that, we switched to the development of mobile electronic warfare systems "Breakwater", which remains the main focus of our work to this day. We act as a design bureau: we make experimental series, "rewire" complexes to new frequencies at the request of volunteers or departments that contact us directly. It is thanks to such feedback that we can continue to grow today.
Now we use the most advanced technical solutions, such as industrial robots, high-precision laser processing, as well as CNC machines (numerical control). In addition, we have our own small anechoic chamber, which we assembled for research and output control of products.
Our specialists conduct computer modeling, work with digital doubles, for example, simulate the actions of a soldier in a virtual space with a briefcase, where he has an electronic warfare system, to determine the most effective position, since the soldier is constantly moving, and the directional pattern changes its position.
— Why did you decide to redesign the enterprise for the development of electronic warfare systems?
— The fact is that at the beginning of the special operation, the army basically did not have mobile electronic warfare systems. We started with large complexes, but quickly realized that this would not work, since it was impossible to ensure the modularity of the design in them.
Even then, the enemy began to "jump" on the frequencies at which his drones worked, constantly changing them, and there is simply no way to quickly rewire a large station, recording new ranges to suppress the UAVs of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. To solve this problem, we have developed a "Breakwater". The idea of creating this system came to us, one might say, in the field. Our team was returning after the next tests, then we were still testing our very first electronic warfare equipment.
It was hot and hard in those parts, the equipment couldn't stand it, we repaired it right on the APC, we thought, what kind of complex did we create that is unrealistic to serve? And so, it dawned on us. I won't say that this is some kind of brilliant idea, we just realized that we needed the simplest possible modular complex, made "in a military way". That is, in a critical situation, a soldier must not only turn on the electronic warfare system, but also not break it.
There were many different incidents: someone confuses the polarities, someone supplies the wrong voltages, lower ones, however, the Breakwater is quite resistant to such situations. The latest modification of the "Breakwaters" already has a protection system, separate fuses. We were the first to come up with the idea of making magnetic fasteners of electronic warfare systems for equipment, after that almost all manufacturers of the industry began to use this solution. During development, our team almost immediately abandoned pin antennas, because they easily detach from machines, and eventually came to the shape of a cone. The fact is that the conical shape allows the product to be strong enough under loads from different sides.
We showed the first modification of the Breakwater in the summer of 2023 at the Army forum.
As for modularity, fighters can take several of our "cones" at once to provide electronic warfare at all frequencies needed at the moment and in a particular sector of the front. As soon as the enemy transfers their drones to other frequencies, you put another "Breakwater" on the equipment and thus increase your electronic warfare system without buying one expensive product at once, which may also soon become irrelevant.
In addition, the military personnel send their "Breakwaters" to us for modernization – we redo them, put a new suppressor and antenna in the "cone". With each new batch coming to the front, the "Breakwater" is being improved, in fact, it is already a new electronic warfare system.
— What has your system "learned" after all these stages of modernization?
— During this time, the Breakwater has gone from a one- to two-band complex with the possibility of installing various interference generation systems, ranging from digital to analog.
— How did the Breakwater perform in real combat conditions?
— I hope not to jinx it, but over the past month, those servicemen who installed the Breakwaters did not have any losses at all. Our systems save lives every day.
I'll give you a good example. A group of our soldiers were attacked by an FPV raid. They had a Breakwater on their car. All the fighters packed into one car, and literally as soon as they hit the gas, about half a minute later, a drone fell 50 meters away from them, then another and then another. So they rode, and the enemy's FPV drones, no matter how they tried, could not catch up with them. All of them could have died, the car was unarmored, an ordinary SUV, but they escaped.
Another case, when the "Breakwater" saved not lives, but equipment, occurred with the CBT "Solntsepek". For some reason, probably due to a malfunction, our guys left the car and left it empty all night. The next morning, the electronic warfare system on the muffled car was still able to protect it. For about 6 hours, the "Sun" stood in an open field, the enemy spent 5-6 pieces of his drones on it and still could not hit. The car was evacuated, repaired and it is already back in service.
— Has the enemy's use of FPV drones really become such a critical factor on the battlefield?
— Yes, they have become a serious problem. In fact, there has been an underestimation of the threat posed by this technique. Both we and the enemy are in the same information field, and with the advent of such things as Open source and Github, anyone can download software for the military use of such "toys".
Such quadrocopters are easy to operate, consume less energy, so they have become massive. In a good way, even a child can control a quadcopter, but there are no "serious" drones made according to the "flying wing" scheme. If you take 20 people — ordinary soldiers, of them, probably 15 people will definitely be able to lift an FPV drone into the air, and the "wing" is a maximum of 2 fighters.
It would be correct to say that the massive use of FPV drones has worsened the situation at the front for both us and the enemy, since this game is always played together.
— Is there a modular electronic warfare system similar to the "Breakwater" in the armies of other countries today?
— Indeed, today they are actively trying to copy the "Breakwater" abroad. In terms of portable electronic warfare systems, we were absolute pioneers and trendsetters. When the "Breakwaters" first appeared, Western media wrote about them, calling them not a few "Putin's new weapon."
The portable electronic warfare system, in the form in which our developers invented it, did not exist as a class in any army in the world, even in Israel with its developed military-industrial complex. This led to the fact that in the early days of the Hamas attack, the Merkavs were massively "burned" with penny drones, which we have long learned to suppress. Yes, Israel has many complexes for fighting UAVs, including anti-drone guns, but there was nothing on armored vehicles. As a result, the IDF was forced to hastily install "visors" on tanks, also popularly known as "braziers", because of which everyone laughed at us at the time, and completely in vain, as history has shown.
— Could you tell us about the electronic warfare vehicle that you are making together with the Argo company?
— Yes, there is such a project. We make it on the basis of the Triton amphibious vehicle, the prototype of which is made "based on" the LoISe chassis. An expanded "Breakwater" complex will be installed on the Triton, which will conduct not only radio interference guidance, but also electronic reconnaissance (RER).
Why did we choose the LoISe chassis? The fact is that everything was invented in the Soviet Union, it is an extremely tenacious, passable machine, which is a multi-purpose amphibious vehicle and transport of the leading edge. Installation of electronic warfare and electronic warfare systems on such a chassis will allow monitoring of any sections of the front at the very front edge, and working in any conditions. Compared to the Luaz car, our EW car will have a new engine and transmission of a different class.
The scope of application of this machine in the future is the cover of advancing units, evacuation groups, rotation areas, and so on. She will not have to act as an evacuation vehicle herself, because she is too expensively equipped.
In the future, we will even be able to make it a source of concentration for a group of FPV drones by installing all the necessary equipment on it so that it can control drones and at the same time not jam its own UAVs.
— What new products does your company plan to present at the upcoming Army 2024 forum?
— We have, one might say, Napoleonic plans. Most likely, we will present automatic machine gun platforms at the Army, as well as our digital security system "Friday". We named it so simply because we came up with this project on Friday, there are no more hidden meanings here.
This is a software solution that combines everything into a single center. We have learned the best from industry and cybersecurity, merging everything together and thus being able to control disparate devices at large area facilities.
This will help to "close" large-scale facilities, for example, enterprises where drones arrive. We need to understand how we can work on a drone, based on the specifics of the types of UAVs, without wasting time. The Friday system helps to choose the optimal type of exposure based on various factors.
— What are the main objectives of your company for 2024?
— Our main task is to make sure that machines fight, not people. The second task is to reduce the number of casualties among both military and civilians, because losses are not just statistics, but someone's own father, son or husband who did not return home.
In addition, we would like to transfer the principles of production organization that I saw when I worked in the West to our enterprises. There is a lot to learn there, including how to react quickly to a changing situation. It's not about any technical know-how, but rather about effective work organization. Let me explain using the example of our company: each of our specialists has the same set of tools and it is marked on it that it is yours. Everyone specializes in what they can do best — we don't force people to do what they can't. Separately, it should be said about the work schedule. It may sound strange, but we have a free one. That is, for someone, for example, it is more convenient for me to work in the evening, and in the morning it is very difficult for me to organize my working hours, while for someone, on the contrary, the most productive period of the day is the morning. Therefore, we synchronize the working group so that everyone works when they can do it most productively: you need to sleep — go get some sleep, what are you just going to sit there? If you need to go home, go. Of course, this may spoil you a little, but everything is clearly built here. There are no random people in our team, each of us is always ready to work for the benefit of our common goals.
To conclude our conversation, I want to say that we live in a unique time for small technology companies like ours. Before, I'm sure we wouldn't even have opened.
I won't hide it — I was invited to work for many foreign companies, and even after I returned home from a foreign country. Many then twirled their fingers at their temples and said: "Are you a fool?! They make such offers to you!" To which I always replied: "No, guys, we will open a company here and replace some things." Now there are times when such things work and, most importantly, the state understands the need for such small high-tech startups to exist and does not hinder their development. I really want such a working climate to continue.
At the same time, it is highly desirable that the system of state tests of the same electronic warfare products and drones itself does not fall under some infinitely identical standard, but constantly adapts to current realities, because if we test, for example, detectors at some common frequencies, then these detectors will not be of any use.
Now there is a fairly good atmosphere in Russia for the emergence of such projects, when people unite, and if everything continues to develop in the same spirit, then this will all lead to the fact that we will be able to nurture a lot of innovative companies that will be able to switch to the "citizen".
Yes, sooner or later the conflict will end, and we need to think about the technological development of the country right now – hoping only for foreign support, as recent years have shown us, is unjustified and simply dangerous.