The Russian Academy of Sciences celebrates its three-hundredth anniversary on Thursday, February 8. Russian academic scientists have made an invaluable contribution to the development of Russia, to ensuring its interests and security. Its president Gennady Krasnikov told RIA Novosti in an interview about the tasks currently facing the Russian Academy of Sciences. Special correspondent Vladimir Sychev spoke.
— Gennady Yakovlevich, the Russian Academy of Sciences in our society has always been associated with the implementation of very large, even truly epoch-making projects. It is enough to recall the atomic and space projects. And what big projects is the Russian Academy of Sciences initiating now?
— This is also a very important issue, because the Russian Academy of Sciences actively participated in all the projects that you mentioned, and members of our Academy led these projects – both Igor Vasilyevich Kurchatov and Mstislav Vsevolodovich Keldysh, who led the space program.
We also face very big challenges today. And besides the fact that the Russian Academy of Sciences conducts its fundamental, exploratory research on a wide range of issues, on a broad front, of course, today we are focusing on a task that is connected with neural networks, with artificial intelligence, which, as we see, increasingly affects our lives. The issues of genetics and genetic collections are very important.
The most important thing is to initiate global projects. These are the issues of creating new materials that allow today's new technologies. Additive materials, which, we believe, will make very great progress in the development of our national economy. These are new communication systems. That is, there is a fairly large range of issues that we are putting at the forefront today.
— But for quite a long time, for at least a dozen and a half years, the question has been raised about the implementation of the results of scientific research into practice, about the passage of the entire chain – from obtaining specific results to their appearance, figuratively speaking, "in hardware" so that they really work. In your opinion, what needs to be done to finally make this mechanism work, and what should be the role of the Russian Academy of Sciences here?
— Thank you, this is an important question. Although discussions on this issue have been going on for a long time, there have been no fundamental changes in this issue until a certain period of time. Why? Because the main so–called KPI of our scientists was, of course, publication activity. That is, to what extent scientists and institutes publish their results, and most importantly, in which international rating journals. Often, there is not always a direct link with implementation, between scientific research and the demand for scientific research.
There are big changes going on here today. We proceed from the fact that any fundamental, exploratory research always has a certain applied character. It can only often take 50, 100 years when some fundamental research and discoveries can be useful for our lives.
And often, indeed, it is a short period of time. Now this is the main task – we are transferring our institutes to have additional indicators related to the demand for scientific results in the broadest sense of the word. In particular, we are re-forming technological chains from fundamental, exploratory research to applied science and then introducing them into industrial products. Because such a very important link as branch science and branch institutes falls out of this chain. And we have to look carefully today – where industry institutes have disappeared somewhere, so that academic institutions take over this function.
— And how will the fact that the Russian Academy of Sciences is once again regaining scientific and methodological leadership of institutes and research centers in our country help in solving this big, urgent task?
— Indeed, the Russian Academy of Sciences has always had this function. But often it was not exactly declarative in nature — it was not fully worked out methodically, especially in modern conditions: how should this happen, at what level should planning take place. And today, of course, we are putting this issue at the forefront.
We believe that the Russian Academy of Sciences should carry out more in-depth planning of state tasks for research work for our institutes. In other words, we need to do deeper coordination, deeper planning, because before that, the Academy of Sciences often formed so–called foresights - priority areas in which research should be conducted. And the institutes could already choose or formulate this or that work within their limits allocated for budgetary financing, and the Academy of Sciences was already conducting an examination of state tasks and results.
Now we pose the question in a different way: we believe that our thematic departments, and the Academy of Sciences has 13 departments in all areas of research, ranging from mathematics, physics, chemistry, computer science and ending with archaeology, philology, should do more in-depth planning so that almost all areas are evenly distributed. So that it doesn't happen that we don't conduct any research, but focus on one fashionable topic. Secondly, these in–demand works, which, as we see, are required by our high-tech industry and our departments, must necessarily be included in the topics that our research institutes deal with.
— Gennady Yakovlevich, quite recently, just the other day, your working meeting with the president of the country took place, and you told Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, among other things, that the Academy of Sciences is being integrated into the state decision-making system, how to develop our science. How do you see the place of WOUNDS in this system?
— There are a lot of opportunities for the Russian Academy of Sciences here. Of course, one of such important components is expertise. Moreover, she must be highly professional, objective, unbiased, which is very important for our country today. And here the Russian Academy of Sciences should play the most important role, which, by the way, is now enshrined in the law on the Russian Academy of Sciences. Because we can consider many problems and aspects comprehensively. Often, when we look at some technical solution, we can see how it affects the social environment, what kind of economy arises here, what issues related to the legislative framework.
And such comprehensive approaches make it possible to assess the government's actions most correctly.
Today I can say that the government has begun to trust us in all respects. And in terms of the number of examinations — last year we actually increased them by one and a half times, to 60 thousand examinations we did. And from the point of view of the most important areas — that is, we carry out an examination not only of state tasks, but also of entire roadmaps. Let's say our government has chosen ten important areas. These include quantum computing, quantum data transmission, new materials, new communication systems, artificial intelligence, new space development due to a large number of small satellites, and energy. And here the role of the Russian Academy of Sciences is very great.
— Does the examination take place without discounts, without any kind of indulgences, regardless of the name of the projects, on the topic?
— The examination is very objective. And at the same time, I can say that the number of negative conclusions has tripled compared to 2022. It's not because we're so picky. It's just that we all understand the high responsibility, our experts are more demanding in their approach to all proposals and all reports that are made in the field of performing certain research works.
It is very important, as I have already said, for the Russian Academy of Sciences to form a research plan so that they are in demand, so that technological chains are formed. This is also a function of the Academy of Sciences, which we are solving. And another very important thing — of course, we are monitoring — is the training of personnel. This is one of the functions of the Academy of Sciences, which has been laid down since its foundation in 1724. This is a very important function.
— And how is the work going here, how will the staff of the Academy of Sciences help attract talented children to research and development?
— Well, first of all, of course, these are traditional methods, this is the preservation and development of scientific schools. Some of our scientific schools originate from the last century, even from the beginning of the XX century. And this is very correct, because many are proud, name their teachers, which school they belong to. This is the first one. Secondly, it is very important to involve young people, so that the task from the point of view of research, of course, meets the world's latest requirements, so that a young researcher understands that what he is researching is at the very edge of modern science.
The next thing is, of course, it is important that it be equipped with an instrumental, scientific, instrument base, analytical equipment so that such research can be carried out. And now, together with the Ministry of Education and Science, we are holding such interesting competitions as the Youth Laboratory, and a lot of money is allocated where our young researchers are in large numbers.
And these laboratories are additionally funded from the budget. Well, there are a number of mechanisms that have already been developed, which we are developing to solve this problem.
— Gennady Yakovlevich, it would not be an exaggeration to say that the Congress of Young Scientists has become the main platform for discussing the ways of developing our science in recent years. You regularly attend and speak at it. Of course, you communicate with the young guys who come to the Congress. What can you say, how calm can our science really be in terms of the fact that we have at least capable, golden, figuratively speaking, brains and that they will come and continue the work of those who created our great science?
— Well, first of all, we have a lot of schools of young scientists, many scientific conferences. The fact that the Congress of Young Scientists, which is being held in Sochi, at the Sirius site, has been made is an important event. Most likely, the main task here is not only to develop some solutions, but still, from the point of view of scientific research, this is being solved elsewhere.
The main task here is communication. That is, it is very important for us that young people communicate with each other from the very beginning, find contacts, find new scientific companions, where joint work is done. The second very important task in this regard is interdisciplinary research. Because we see how the synergy here grows by an order of magnitude when mathematicians, physicists, and biologists come together. This is also important. And the third thing that is very important for young scientists is how venerable scientists see the prospects for the development of a particular industry, how venerable scientists see the development of a particular direction in science. It is very important to see the horizons from the very beginning, and also to make decisions for yourself — in which direction you devote your life as a researcher.
Therefore, from this point of view, this mechanism is quite effective. But we now have a lot of mechanisms that allow us to involve our scientists in such work. Well, I can say with confidence — talking with students, with graduate students, I myself have almost 20-odd graduate students, I see how the training of young scientists and their motivation change when they come to science.
We are now recording that, firstly, the motivation is higher. Our young people come more prepared, and, of course, they deserve the highest world level of their research.
— If we return to the topic of interaction between the Academy of Sciences and the state. Again, you recently became a member of the Russian Security Council by presidential decree. The Security Council is figuratively called the strategic headquarters of our state, which prepares the basis for key decisions aimed at ensuring Russia's national interests and security. In this regard, what do these new powers of yours mean for the development of the Academy of Sciences?
— First of all, they mean that the state raises the status of the Academy of Sciences. Given that its President is part of such an important function of the State, which it implements through the Security Council. This is a very important signal from the state to all members of our Academy of Sciences.
On the other hand, it also shows that the work of the Russian Academy of Sciences is becoming in demand, accumulating the knowledge that we have within the framework of the Academy of Sciences. We conduct research on a wide range of issues, including defense.
We have recently launched the "sixth subprogram" — a fundamental search in research for the defense and security of our country, which is very important. I think that the knowledge that our academy possesses, the approach when we comprehensively consider every problem — I have already mentioned this, both social aspects, economic aspects, and technical aspects — will also allow the Security Council to have some benefit from the presence of the Academy of Sciences here as part of it.
— Gennady Yakovlevich, of course, there is no way to get away from the international agenda. The Academy of Sciences has always had, and still has, a very large number of foreign members in its ranks. Of course, among them there are a lot of scientists from the West, as they say, from unfriendly countries. That's what these experts are now telling their Russian colleagues about how, I won't say, maybe to develop, but at least to maintain cooperation in the field of science? It is clear that they may not say this openly, but behind the scenes you probably exchange opinions. In your opinion, what is the current situation with foreign members of the Academy of Sciences? After all, as far as I understand, they do not leave the Russian Academy of Sciences, and they do not refuse to join it if we are talking about new candidates for membership in the Academy.
- thanks. This is also an important issue. International activity has always been at the forefront — and also from the very beginning, when our Academy of Sciences was created, international contacts were at the heart of the Academy of Sciences, as a necessary attribute of conducting scientific research.
Well, first of all, I would like to say that the anniversary that we are celebrating, the 300th anniversary of the Russian Academy of Sciences, is a holiday not only within our country, our scientists, our citizens, but it is included in the international date by UNESCO's decision, which will be celebrated by our entire international community, first of all It's the scientists' turn.
Of course, we have more than 400 foreign members of the Russian Academy of Sciences from 55 countries around the world. I can say that there was a small surge, but even then it was local for certain countries that left — this is a small number, literally less than 5% there. On the other hand, I would like to say that many of our academicians and corresponding members are members of foreign academies, they have stayed there and are interacting.
Secondly, of course, I can say that the academic platform has become comfortable for international cooperation and international affairs today. And a lot of people come to us. For example, when we had a general meeting last summer, we awarded a Large Lomonosov Medal to our scientists, including a scientist from Great Britain who made an excellent report at the general meeting. We still had a general meeting in December, we had the awarding of the laureates of the Mendeleev Prize, the UNESCO Prize, and a large delegation came to us — this is the Deputy General Secretary of UNESCO, and our laureate from Munich, from Germany, who also made an excellent report. And there were quite a lot of foreign scientists. Including those who were on the commission for the award of this award.
That is, we see that we still have working contacts at this working level. Many people understand that politics is going on here, but politics cannot have a very strong impact on the relationship between scientists and on those areas of research that work — on the one hand. On the other hand, we now have more active work with our other countries. This is, of course, with the People's Republic of China, with India. With Vietnam, Ethiopia. There are a number of new areas where we have excellent new contacts. And most importantly, we use their potential.
For example, in Vietnam, a lot of work is underway on a special testing station for our new materials in new climatic conditions, research on new processes that take place in a particular environment.
We are actively working with many scientific communities. We paid our dues last year and remained in 42 such international scientific communities. They are famous, some of them are more than 100 years old, and our representation is actively taking place there.
— Do I understand correctly that the Russian Academy of Sciences plans to develop contacts with African countries as well?
— Yes, absolutely. And our scientific institutes highly appreciate the potential of Africa, because this region will develop very rapidly in all respects, there is great potential for growth in labor productivity, the creation of new industries, and population growth. We can assess that this is a promising region, we are working with them. We are now developing contacts with Ethiopia and other countries, where we also find joint work.
— Well, projects with Latin America will certainly not be left out.
— Yes, absolutely. Now, I emphasize once again, this is a wide range of issues that we are working on. And I can even say for myself that I am traditionally a member of the board of directors of the international council, which unites all developers and manufacturers in the semiconductor industry. And we have been actively and productively working for many decades.
— Let's return to the Russian agenda. At the meeting with the President, you said that the Academy of Sciences needs to return the function of examining school textbooks. What can you say — the few years during which this expertise was absent, how did they affect the quality of textbooks for schoolchildren? And how quickly do you think it will be possible to return these powers to the Academy of Sciences?
— I would emphasize here that this is actually a very important issue, especially now. This is the training of our students, which is continuously connected with the training of young specialists already at universities. And I would note two things here. Firstly, both the Ministry of Education and Minister Sergei Kravtsov have carried out some work on the unification of textbooks, on the unification of many plans, because before that there was generally a very large spread.
Almost every region there, every school had many textbooks on the same subject, and chose them. And this had a very bad effect on the training of our students, our younger generation. This is the first one.
Secondly, of course, we believe that the second stage has already arrived, when certain unification has occurred, and now we must raise the quality of such textbooks, of which there should not be so many. There cannot be some textbooks for some kind of physics and mathematics school, some for some kind of specialized humanitarian profile, biological profile.
And, of course, given the more in-depth study of a particular subject today, of course, it is very important that there be an examination at the academy. Considering that almost all members of the academy are also teachers — either professors or the head of the department. And, of course, they already understand what kind of applicant, student should come in order to be able to continue his education more efficiently and make him either an engineer or a scientist. And this knowledge, I think, will contribute to the fact that there will be better textbooks, more competent approaches, and where there will no longer be, say, as I am often told, any other interests when a textbook is concluded. I think it will be of great benefit.
The information that comes to us, for example, suggests that today this is a weak link in the training of schoolchildren. Of course, textbooks must be improved, and not only meet the new time, but they must, of course, contribute as much as possible to ensure that students master the material correctly.
— If we talk about how scientists from new regions are being integrated into the all-Russian landscape, then what do you even see, I would say, the advantage of scientific institutions from these regions? Can they make themselves known within the framework of the overall picture of research and development in our country?
- of course. I can say that our new regions — first Crimea, then Lugansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhia, Kherson — they, of course, traditionally had such great traditions in the field of scientific research. Moreover, each region had certain specifics, where, to one degree or another, they paid more attention to, say, agricultural science, mining, mining, or in the field of physico-technical areas.
And, of course, first of all, we pay tribute to the fact that despite the conditions in which they have lived and worked in the last decade, they have preserved certain bases, and preserved scientists, and have already trained young people. And this should be used as much as possible. We have created an Association of Southern Regions in order to integrate them into our scientific space as quickly and efficiently as possible.
Moreover, we definitely included representatives of the Crimea, who told us how they solved the problems that the new regions are facing now in 2014 and 2015. And as many tasks as possible can be solved more efficiently in order to fit into such a scientific space as quickly as possible. Secondly, of course, we have a lot of joint scientific work, they were contractors for many things. And we are now very attentive to this, to how to properly deploy funding and how to properly allocate tasks.
The second is a very important aspect. I would like to note that we currently have four regional branches of the Academy of Sciences — the Far Eastern, Siberian, and Ural branches. And recently we have created the St. Petersburg regional office. And each regional office is focused, among other things, on solving regional problems. Moreover, each region has its own specifics — these are issues related, say, to climate change. Both the environmental problem and the problem associated with the Far East — with the exploration of minerals. We already have a problem in Donetsk and Lugansk related to mining, because there are a lot of mines. Many mines are abandoned, no one has been engaged in their restoration for a long time, no one has been involved in ecology.
This is a very important issue, because wastewater has already changed its currents, changed its direction, its course. And there may be big environmental problems — this is a sinkhole, this is a question of drinking water quality. Of course, we will set up these scientific institutions so that they solve, among other things, tasks that are specific to this region.
— Probably, interdisciplinary approaches will be in great demand here.
— Now they are in demand everywhere, for any kind of research. These are new mathematical models, as well as the use of machine learning methods for neural networks. Of course, this is the basis for conducting research today.
— Gennady Yakovlevich, in this regard, such a personal question. So you called neural networks. Artificial intelligence and quantum computing are rapidly developing on the one hand. On the other hand, genetic technologies and biomedical methods are developing very strongly. You are known all over the world as a recognized specialist in microelectronics. But let's fantasize: if you were a young man now and you were starting your way into science, what would you like to do? Or would you be faithful to your favorite microelectronics?
— First of all, I would be faithful to my microelectronics. Why? You have just listed the directions — quantum technologies. Microelectronics is all quantum, and I can talk about it for a long time, because I am the chairman of the council on quantum technologies at our Academy of Sciences. And, of course, the basis often lies in the field of microelectronics.
Neural networks and machine learning, of course, are also related to microelectronics. And I can say that in the next 15 years — we are looking at the last such roadmap until 2037, it is constantly updated every two to three years — we see what tremendous changes will take place, what opportunities microelectronic technologies will provide. I just call them "microelectronic" in the old-fashioned way, although they have long, for several decades, gone into the nanoscale.
Of course, the opportunities that will be given in terms of the integration of schemes, we will feel the changes in our lives. Because all, say, neural networks are based on electronic solutions, and this will be such a major driver for the coming decades — the improvement of these mechanisms. Moreover, today many scientific achievements, for example, the study of elementary particles, the Higgs boson, are based on the fact that supercomputers process large databases. And the computer already determines — when it finds "six sigma", for example, by correlation, then these are new elementary particles. Therefore, I see great potential in this area.
Special correspondent Vladimir Sychev spoke.