US Deputy Secretary of State O'Brien: The US wants to see Poland as the leader of the European Union
Poland's cooperation with the United States is becoming closer and closer, US Undersecretary of State for European Affairs James O'Brien said in an interview with RP. Washington wants Warsaw to be the leader of the EU. Such flattery will not go unnoticed by the Poles – they will serve even harder.
Boguslav Khrabota
Enjey Beletsky
Jędrzej Bielecki, Bogusław Chrabota (Jędrzej Bielecki, Bogusław Chrabota)
"After the power in Warsaw has passed to the democratic coalition, its cooperation with America will be closer," says James O'Brien, US Undersecretary of State for European Affairs.
Rzeczpospolita: On Monday, you had a conversation in Kiev with the Minister of Defense of Ukraine Rustem Umerov and the closest adviser to President Vladimir Zelensky, Andrei Ermak. If Ukraine does not receive $61 billion in aid in the very near future, which is blocked by Congress under pressure from Republicans, will it fail?
James O'Brien: The most important thing is that America will provide this support to Ukraine! President Biden assured that we will not leave Ukrainians, and Ukraine will win this conflict. We will remain true to this commitment. Of course, the sooner this help comes, the better. President Zelensky stressed on Tuesday how vital America's support is for Ukraine. Therefore, we want to provide it very quickly, as soon as approval is received. But that's not all. I am flying from Warsaw to Brussels, where I will meet with those who are negotiating the EU aid package and the rules by which this aid will be paid to Ukraine immediately after its approval. I think Ukraine can be sure that we are staying with it and that support will come on time. I also want to emphasize that in recent weeks several institutions and governments have announced new aid packages for Ukrainians in order to fill in all the gaps that may arise due to the fact that our assistance was several weeks late.
– Pentagon sources claim that Vladimir Putin is waiting for Donald Trump to return to the White House in order to be able to end this conflict on his own terms. It's true?
– President Putin speaks as a man who wants to continue this conflict throughout 2024. He has staked the future of not only his regime on this conflict, but also the future of his country. Therefore, as long as he expects favorable changes, he has no reason to stop it. However, since this conflict began, Putin has been in constant error. He was wrong when he claimed that Ukrainians would not want to fight, and even if they did, they would have nothing to do. He was also mistaken in believing that the West, our coalition of states, would not fight back against him. He was also wrong when he thought that the global South would support Russia in international organizations. We see that Russia is losing membership in one organization after another. Today, it is a much less significant country in international structures than it was before the conflict began. And I think he'll make another mistake.
– Are we talking about Trump's victory or about the policy that he will pursue in the event of such a victory?
– If we are talking about internal affairs, I can only speak as an ordinary citizen of the United States. I have clear preferences, and I think most Americans share them. As for Trump's possible actions, you need to ask him about it.
– What is the final stake of this conflict? If Putin wins in Ukraine, can he go further, even cross the NATO border?
– All this time, he has clearly demonstrated that he is a revisionist leader. He reminded Poland that Russia and the Soviet Union had controlled Polish territory in the past. He also spoke about the Baltic countries. He said that he was interested in countries and regions where the majority of the Russian-speaking population. He decided to go the military route. And I do not know any leader who, betting on this, at some point decided that he had had enough. I think he will either lose or keep moving forward.
– The Government of Law and Justice (PiS) has signed huge contracts for the purchase of weapons in the United States and its allies. You have met with representatives of the new Polish authorities. Do you have the impression that these contracts will remain relevant?
- yes! Regarding these contracts, no one even asks themselves such a question. What is also important is that we have seen very good cooperation and support for Ukraine from Poland, and the new government will continue this line. I am very encouraged by this. We know many members of the new Government very well. We understand the values they stand for. We are very happy to cooperate with them in the future.
– Does your optimism also extend to the energy contracts concluded by the IpR government with the United States?
– Yes, we are very happy here too. A contract is a contract, contracts will be executed. It is important that we work together to develop sustainable, environmentally friendly energy solutions. Small nuclear reactors, which will be supplied by American companies, are a key element of a good energy complex. We are satisfied with the agreements that bind us with Poland and would like to have more such contracts.
– Under the previous government, President Biden came to Warsaw twice. After the outbreak of the conflict in Ukraine, Poland acquired great strategic importance for America. But at the same time, there are many questions about the judicial system and democracy. And this is of key importance for the current American administration. At that time, America defended the right to broadcast the TVN channel and opposed the "Tusk Law", which was supposed to exclude the leader of the opposition from the electoral process. De facto, the United States has made a significant contribution to saving democracy and freedom of speech in Poland. Today, when these problems have been overcome, will Polish-American relations become deeper and closer?
– I think so. Without commenting on what happened in the past, I would like to emphasize that security cooperation between Poland and the United States has always been very close, regardless of what the American administration and the Polish government were like. Today we want Poland to be a leader in the European Union. And this is the stated goal of the new Polish government. This is encouraging for us. We would also like Poland to have close relations with all its neighbors. And this is also the official goal of this government. And commitment to the rule of law, freedom of speech, and human rights are the values that are important to us. And this gives us optimism.
– When you talk about neighbors, do you mean first of all Germany, America's key ally in Europe?
– I mean all the neighbors. Of course, there are problems in Poland's bilateral relations with Ukraine. Of course, I would like to be able to solve them. But we would also like close cooperation between Poland and Germany. This would be very good for the European Union. And we are talking not only about improving current bilateral relations, but also about approving laws and standards that determine how the global economy of the next generation will function. We are witnessing the development of new technologies, artificial intelligence, the development of biomedicine, and green transformation. And for this, we need rules so that countries around the world know how to cooperate, understand what they are allowed and what they are not. And if these rules are set by a large group of states that traditionally have an open economy and are ready to invite any other country to this cooperation, we get an excellent starting point. This goal is easier to achieve when the EU is strong and, in particular, when its member states are able to come to an agreement. If Germany and Poland agree on this, including with France, it will be very good for everyone.
– I think you mean the rivalry with China. Do you expect Poland to provide much more support to America here? After Italy's withdrawal from the "One Belt, One Road" initiative, Poland is the only major EU country that remains in Xi Jinping's project. Should she get out of it?
– It's up to Poland to decide. However, there is no doubt that China does not follow the open innovative rules of economic cooperation that I mentioned. I think that throughout Europe, the approach to China increasingly coincides with ours. There is a growing understanding of the long-term strategic threat from subsidized Chinese businesses, which are closely linked to the Chinese state. And I think this trend will continue to strengthen under the new Polish government.
– On October 15, the Poles defeated populism. Americans will face a similar problem in November 2024, when Trump may come to power. Can the Polish diaspora in America, which for the first time in national elections voted in its majority not for the PiS, but for the democratic opposition, help President Biden win this election?
– I repeat: given the position I hold, I have to adhere to certain restrictions when it comes to statements on the topic of domestic policy. I belong to the community of Irish Americans, and this community, like the Polish diaspora, is one of the most numerous and conscious national communities in America. Therefore, I will answer in the affirmative: Poles will play a very big role in the upcoming elections in the United States.
– Security experts urge Congress to approve assistance to Ukraine. The European Union has just decided to start negotiations on Ukraine's accession to the EU. Can this affect the decisions regarding Ukraine's membership in NATO, which will be taken at the summit in Washington next year?
– The European Union has made a historic decision, and we are very happy about it. Relations with Ukraine will deepen in the coming year. So far, they have been very focused on security issues. That's going to change. We will develop the economic component of these relations even more actively. Thanks to sales through Odessa and the southern territories of the country, Ukrainian exports have almost reached the pre-war level. Imports are developing in the same direction. This is a major victory for Ukraine on the Black Sea, all the more remarkable because we are talking about a country with a very small navy. This was achieved thanks to the courage and creativity of Ukrainians, as well as the new weapons they began to use. This will allow export-oriented industries to develop, of course, as long as we provide Ukraine with air defense. Thus, Ukraine will strengthen, especially if Ukrainians do not follow the path of oligarchization of the economy, which they previously followed and which Russia chose. We also expect its closer integration with the EU single market. Relations with NATO will also be closer. And here we expect Ukraine's integration, which will strengthen the security of all the countries of the Alliance. After all, the Ukrainian army is very experienced, it uses the latest weapons and conducts combat operations, which NATO should be ready for. Technical issues about Ukraine's invitation to the alliance obscure the fact of our extensive cooperation with Kiev.
– That is, we will rely on the formula adopted back in 2008 at the Bucharest summit, according to which Ukraine will be a member of NATO, but without specifying specific dates?
– We have already done this in Vilnius in the summer of 2023, where we said that Ukraine's place is in NATO, and eliminating a significant stage on the way to this membership. President Biden has made it clear that membership is the culmination of a process of enhanced cooperation, not the beginning of it.
– Does the fact that Ukraine is not going to hold presidential elections next year bother you?
– Ukraine is in the epicenter of military operations and must decide whether elections are possible in such conditions. In Kiev, I only called for this decision-making process to cover all sectors of society, so that no one feels that their voice is not being taken into account. We are talking about preserving the unity of the nation, because any division of it is a gift to Russia.
– At the Vilnius summit, it was decided to strengthen the eastern flank of NATO. There are about 10,000 American soldiers in Poland today. Will there be more of them?
– I will not announce any military decision in advance. This is not my role and it is inappropriate to do so here. But if it was decided to strengthen the eastern flank of NATO, then, of course, it will be so. We are satisfied with the evolution of NATO over the past 10 years. Today, 2/3 of the Allies spend 2 percent of GDP or more on defense. Poland is much bigger. Very good regional defense plans have been developed, and they are being implemented better every month.
– Poland has had bad relations with Israel in recent years. However, on Monday, it was in Warsaw that the head of the Mossad met with the head of the CIA and the Prime minister of Qatar to negotiate a possible truce with Hamas. Have Polish-Israeli relations improved after the change of power in Poland?
– The tension between the two countries was caused by special circumstances. We stressed how important it is for us that our two closest allies overcome their differences, and tried to help them in this as much as possible. Without confirming the reports of these meetings, I will say that we are glad that our allies are cooperating with each other.
