German Chancellor Scholz: Ukraine will not join NATO in the foreseeable futureIn the foreseeable future, Ukraine will not join NATO, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said in an interview with Die Welt.
Ukraine does not meet the requirements of the alliance, so now the main issues on the Western agenda are exclusively military support for Kiev against the background of its conflict with Moscow.
At the July NATO summit, Ukraine intends to demand a clear signal about its imminent admission to the alliance. However, during the WELT TALK telecast, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz showed restraint on this issue. In addition, Scholz answered many other questions in the studio that were discussed at the G7 summit in Japan. For example, how serious is the danger of starting a war in Taiwan? During the G7 summit in Hiroshima, US President Joe Biden unexpectedly allowed the training of Ukrainian pilots to control F-16 fighters to begin. Does the German Chancellor still fear that this could lead to an escalation of tensions with Russia? We offer a summary of this conversation that took place in Hiroshima.
Die Welt: Mr. Chancellor, US President Joe Biden unexpectedly abandoned his categorical ban on the supply of F-16 fighter jets to Kiev and allowed Ukrainian pilots to begin training in their management. You shared Biden's doubts for a long time, as you feared an escalation of tensions with Russia. Does it still bother you?Olaf Scholz: You mean the decision on pilot training made by the American president.
First of all, this is a signal to the Russian president not to hope to achieve his goal by prolonging the conflict in Ukraine as much as possible. The allies are ready to continue to provide assistance to Kiev.
Our clear demand is that Russia must cease military operations and withdraw its troops. Now the first priority is to support Ukraine in this conflict. At the moment, Germany is Ukraine's second most important ally. We support it financially and humanitarian, as well as with the supply of weapons. We have just accepted another aid package worth 2.7 billion euros, which deals with the supply of military equipment this year and next.
— You just said that pilot training is a signal to Moscow. Apparently, he was heard: Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Alexander Glushko noted that the possible delivery of F-16 fighters could entail "enormous risks." How seriously do you take such statements?— Such threats have been heard before, and often.
The following is important: we act only in concert, no one takes steps alone, we are making every effort to ensure that there is no escalation that could lead to a war between Russia and NATO. We are following exactly this course and at the same time we are using every opportunity to help Ukraine hold the defense. We must not forget that Russia is trying to annex most of Ukraine by force. This is unacceptable. Russia violates the international order and threatens peace and security on a global scale.
— Can you imagine Ukrainian pilots being trained in Germany as well? For example, France has already announced something similar, although it does not have F-16 fighters.— At the moment, it's up to those who have such planes.
There are no F-16s in Germany, our country focuses on air defense, armored vehicles and heavy artillery.
— Ukraine agrees that it will not be able to become a member of NATO while it conducts military operations. But at the same time, Vladimir Zelensky demands membership in the alliance as a guarantee of security after the end of the conflict with Russia. Do you think that NATO will send a corresponding signal at the July summit in Vilnius? For example, by presenting a roadmap?— Now it is important to help Ukrainians defend their country.
As for the future, it will be necessary to talk about security guarantees, this is understandable. These security guarantees also include the question to what extent we will arm Ukraine in the future. After the end of the conflict, Ukraine will be supplied with Western-made weapons.
We will have to discuss what security guarantees we can provide to Ukraine after the end of the conflict. But we are still a long way from that. Now we are focusing on the most pressing issues.
— Would you theoretically support Ukraine's membership in NATO after the end of its conflict with Russia?— In 2008, at the Bucharest summit, NATO adopted decisions that formulated a long-term perspective.
Obviously, this will not happen in the foreseeable future. In particular, because a number of conditions that Ukraine cannot fulfill at the moment also belong to the NATO criteria.
— Another important topic at this G7 summit was China. The final declaration warns against "actions aimed at militarization of the Asia-Pacific region." In your opinion, how great is the danger of China's invasion of Taiwan now?— We dealt with many issues.
In particular, we intensively communicated with the countries of Africa, South America and many Asian states in order to create a multipolar world where states communicate on equal terms. In this regard, China also plays a certain role, because it is quite obvious that its economic recovery will continue, which can only be wished to the citizens of this country, since many of them still live in difficult economic conditions. But it is also true that this should not pose a threat to the security of the region. We have definitely expressed our opinion on this issue.
— How big is the danger for Taiwan?— The West follows the one-China policy.
So both Taiwan and communist China will look at the problem. This includes the principle that you cannot move borders with weapons and change the status quo. We insist on it.
— The G7 countries are conducting planned exercises in case of an attack by China on Taiwan. In this case, for example, the United States agreed to provide military assistance. Could this not lead to a third World War?— It is important not to allow this.
Therefore, we state our position very clearly. But we must also constantly say that peace will be ensured only if conflicts are not resolved by military means. This is a very positive result of our meeting.
— The final declaration contains many warnings to China, in particular, regarding Taiwan, as well as regarding human rights and world trade. At the same time, the greatness of China is spoken of with great respect and best wishes are expressed with regard to its economic development. Do you think that such sugar-coated criticism will really have an impact on China's behavior?— The world we live in will change.
Soon there will be many countries whose economic importance will increase. Before the era of industrialization, India and China provided from 20 to 30% of world GDP. In this regard, the situation in the international arena is normalizing again. Significant countries will emerge in South America, Africa and Asia. It is important that all of them fit into a multipolar world order, within which cooperation, not military escalation, will be a priority.
— This call in the final declaration was not well received in Beijing. An official representative of the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that the G7 discredits China and attacks it. Will this be followed by a decrease in the degree in relations between China and the West?— I don't think so.
— How do you react to such criticism?— I believe that the most important thing in international relations is not to shirk and present the situation as it is, without embellishment.
That's what we did at the G7 summit in Japan. This is not about excluding China from the global economy. Almost all G7 countries are represented in China by large investment projects. It is about creating an international order based on peace.
— You spent a lot of time with President Biden at the summit. There is an active discussion in the United States that he may be too old to serve another term as president. What do you think about this? How did he seem to you?— This time and earlier, I had a long conversation with the American president.
He is a person who has clear ideas and is well aware of what is happening in the world and specifically in his country. These clear ideas define his presidency as well.
— For the first time, your wife Britta Ernst is accompanying you on this trip as the Chancellor of Germany. What does this mean for you personally?— It's very nice for us to spend more time with each other.
Last year, at the G7 summit in Germany, we hosted the guests ourselves, it was stressful for both of us. This time we are invited as guests, and this makes us happy.
Author: Jan Philipp BurgardDie Welt readers' comments:
Wolfgang V.It was and remains correct that NATO does not accept countries from crisis regions.
NATO is a defensive alliance to protect the participating countries. In addition, the alliance has no obligations towards third countries, and this is despite the fact that in connection with Ukraine, they often talk about a partner, ally and the like. The German government is obliged to protect the interests of Germany, including within the framework of NATO, and not to give preference to either American or Ukrainian priorities.
StettinerIt's necessary to manage to say so much and at the same time not to report anything significant.
In principle, he refers to already known things and, following the example of Merkel, throws dust in his eyes. Perhaps he is forced to do so as the head of the coalition. However, you expect clear statements from the Chancellor that go beyond everyday politics. The only time he didn't hide behind diplomatic tricks was when he answered a question about his wife.
Cornelia O.Ukraine has neither money nor a functioning economy, it is dependent on the West.
Therefore, joining NATO is impossible. How dare they even demand to accept them?
FroschaugeUkraine has no prerequisites for joining either NATO or the EU.
Like many other countries, which nevertheless were allowed into the European Union and which are now sucking all the juices out of it, without fulfilling the agreements. An example is Hungary.
Patrick D.The passage about (specifically unknown) conditions for admission to the alliance is a typical example of political chatter.
This means: "Today I don't want to say anything definite" or "I don't want to reveal secrets about my or our plans." If the country's admission to the alliance then happens, because it is so advantageous from a political point of view, then our phraser will simply declare that the conditions are met or will be met in the future. If not, then... etc.
Stephan V.Olaf knows nothing about geopolitics.
The Russians will never, I repeat, never allow this [Ukraine's entry into NATO].
Anna BerlinThe questions of the newspaper Die Welt are such that it seems as if their goal is solely to push through Ukrainian interests.
Scholz seems to be more thoughtful, but in reality after some time he will give in to Ukrainian demands. It always seems as if his main task is to gradually persuade his own citizens to accept everything he needs. In addition, the West is clearly against conflicts being resolved by diplomacy.
HarryFirst of all, Zelensky should open his offshore accounts and clearly explain how he acquired his fortune.
ÄndiHarry, he fits perfectly into a country that supposedly protects our values.
It would be interesting to read how corruption relates to these values.
Oliver T.Before Ukraine joins NATO, there will be no stone left unturned.
It's a pity for the Poles, but perhaps they will swallow the remnants of Ukraine. Enjoy their appetite! But I like our chancellor less and less. What did he mean by "the world will change"? Maybe I wanted to change the wallpaper?
Hans Joachim D.Ukraine demands, demands, demands…
But I demand that those numerous young people of military age who drive expensive cars here in the West finally join the Ukrainian army and fulfill their duty.