Moscow. April 10th. INTERFAX - Andrey Yelchaninov, First Deputy Director General of the Roscosmos State Corporation, told Interfax correspondents Alexander Belov and Artem Rukavov about the internal policy of the state corporation, international cooperation and financial assessments of the creation of a promising Russian orbital station.
- Andrey Fedorovich, how does Roscosmos feel in the current conditions: without a large number of launches in the interests of foreign customers and an increase in the load against the background of its?
- Roscosmos feels stable. Despite external pressure, we are finding new partners. The unshakable execution of contracts is the main direction of our current activity. We have documented and brought to everyone that the violation of the fulfillment of the obligations of the state contract for the heads of enterprises of the industry for more than one month is a punishment, in the future it is dismissal.
- Does a large amount of losses persist?
- We are predicting a large volume of losses. As the CEO said, by the end of 2022, the situation is estimated tentatively in the region of 50 billion rubles. This is not only because of the sanctions impact, it is also the sluggishness of individual enterprises in terms of their obligations. We hope that we will get out of this difficult situation, which has been aggravated by the refusal of international cooperation. An additional source of compensation for losses is now practically blocked for us. We are straining internal reserves and looking for new partners in international markets.
- 50 billion rubles of losses by the end of 2022 - is this a confirmed amount?
- This is not a confirmed amount, since, based on the policy of tax reporting, the formation of budget estimates and audit processes, the work to obtain a specific figure, verified to the nearest penny, takes about 4-5 months next year. That is, we will already know a specific figure in the second quarter of 2023, but the scope of the disaster is clear to us already now.
- Did you have to close any works and promising projects in order to save money?
- We analyze the current work and rethink those works that are lame.
The new leadership of Roscosmos forbade even thinking at the physical level about contacting the government of the Russian Federation with a proposal to amend the terms of concluded state contracts, which had previously been put on stream.
- If the company understands that it does not have time to fulfill the contract?
- So, this is the wrong organization of work. Therefore, it is necessary to make changes in the organization of work, as well as to part with those people who are not able to organize this work.
- And in case of force majeure?
- Yes, there are force majeure circumstances - covid events, sanctions impact, but this should not be massive. This is a point solution for individual problematic issues.
- How are you planning to solve the problem with the debts of the Khrunichev Center?
- We work with the Khrunichev Center on an ongoing basis - every week we spend a certain amount of time to delve into the current situation, because it changes based on the needs of the Ministry of Defense in terms of the products that the company produces. It is being clarified and adjusted, but at the same time the financial situation of the Center remains difficult. The main part of the burden is debts to banks for servicing previously attracted loans.
The amount of debt on loans of the Khrunichev Center is in the region of 9.5 billion rubles. The terms of its repayment depend on our interaction with banks, as long as we find a common language with them.
We hope that the debt situation will be leveled after the commissioning of the National Space Center - no earlier than 2025. That is, we will repay the Center's debts on the horizon of 2026-2029, if we look at things realistically.
- How is the construction of the National Space Center going?
- The construction of the National Space Center is proceeding in strict accordance with the schedule and is under constant control from the government of Moscow and Roscosmos. The installation of engineering structures of the low-rise part of the building has been completed, the facades are being glazed. The construction of the dominant of the complex is at the final stage - 42 of the 47 floors are cast in concrete. The completion date for the construction is scheduled for 2024, and the relocation of the state corporation and its organizations is scheduled for 2025.
- In December 2022 - February 2023, a coolant leak occurred on the ISS in two ships - the manned Soyuz MS-22 and the Progress truck. Roscosmos called the preliminary cause of the accident "external influence", but at the same time stated the need to check the entire technological chain of spacecraft manufacturing. Have any conclusions already been made regarding the effectiveness of the head performer - RSC Energia?
- In the situation with the Soyuz MS-22 manned spacecraft, we still managed, with the help of our colleagues on the ISS, to look in more detail at the area of coolant leakage. We unambiguously interpreted the results as an external impact of a foreign body, which led to a violation of the contour of the ship.
The second episode is akin to two shells hitting one funnel, so we carried out a much larger set of measures. A special commission conducted a full production and technological audit of the creation of this subsystem both on a manned ship and on a truck. Based on the results of this audit, we were once again convinced that all technologies were followed and are being followed now. The results of the commission's work allowed us to conclude that the external impact also caused the depressurization of the external contour of the truck. Our ISS partners have once again helped us in this work, for which we thank them very much.
In addition, the ships preparing for launch were additionally checked. No errors were found.
- Are there any financial losses due to this whole situation and the shift in the return of the crew?
- We had a manned ship that was ordered and paid for by the state and was intended for a specific purpose. We just made changes to the program of stay of specific astronauts in orbit. This did not affect the implementation of the scientific program in any way. All the experiments provided for in the program will be carried out.
- What kind of external influence broke through the thermal control systems of the ships? Were they space debris particles?
- What exactly hit there, no one knows. Our version is a meteoroid. It definitely wasn't space junk. There is a separate area of work on bringing the station closer to space debris, on which we are working closely with the Americans. And if it was garbage, we would have tracked it and performed another maneuver of avoiding the ISS from a collision.
- Nevertheless, the problem of space debris in near-Earth orbit has been discussed for several years. How at risk is the Russian satellite grouping?
- The problem is becoming global. A large number of debris and spacecraft appear in an orbit of 300-400 km, so it is necessary to develop regulatory norms. This is a threat to guaranteed access to space, including the launch and normal operation of spacecraft in orbit. If the "rules of traffic control in space" are adopted at the international level in the wording without taking into account the interests of Russia, this will create another threat associated with economic and reputational losses.
- And how to respond to all this?
- Parrying these threats will become one of the tasks of ensuring national security. Therefore, Roscosmos, together with other interested agencies, continues to defend our country's positions in the international arena and at the same time increases the capabilities of an automated warning system for dangerous situations in near-Earth space.
The Americans are making their own system, we are not lagging behind them either - this year work will begin on creating a next-generation system - the Milky Way. This system will allow you to track all celestial bodies and calculate the possibility of collision of space debris with satellites. The key properties of this system, along with advanced monitoring tools, should be openness, accessibility and demand at the international level. Openness is the ability to connect monitoring tools of friendly states to the system and the ability of the system to participate in joint projects with them in the field of ensuring the safety of activities in space. Accessibility - the possibility of obtaining products and services by a wide range of Russian and foreign consumers. Demand - satisfaction of consumer demand in the need to obtain products and services for guaranteed access to space and monitoring compliance with the rules of conducting activities in it.
- Will this system be used in the interests of manned cosmonautics? For example, to determine possible collisions of space debris with orbital stations.
- If we talk about the ISS, then in 2022 it was forced to make five evasion maneuvers. The forecast of dangerous approaches is determined by the American side, for Russia we will deal with this ourselves.
- Is there a system that tracks attempts to influence Russian satellites from Earth?
- The impact may be different, so there is no single system. There is telemetry from each working satellite, and from the functioning of its systems, it can be concluded whether it is in good condition or not. There is also the observation of all cosmic bodies in the optical range, which allows us to characterize the mechanical impact on satellites. All this can be integrated into a single system that will allow us to issue unambiguous conclusions of external influence on spacecraft.
- Did you create these systems on your own initiative or under a state contract?
- And so, and so it is.
- The head of Roscosmos, Yuri Borisov, has repeatedly stated the need to switch to conveyor production of satellites. How is the work going in this direction?
- Previously, Roscosmos was not engaged in mass production of spacecraft. The first swallows will be ISS Reshetneva and NPO Lavochkina. Now we are setting up all technical and technological processes for mass production. We involve companies that have achieved serious success in this area, primarily from the automotive and aircraft industries. We adopt their best practices and implement this approach.
- How does Roscosmos treat the constant criticism that the country lacks satellites?
- Only one issue is constantly criticized: the failure of Roscosmos organizations to fulfill their obligations, and this is fair. But the build-up of the satellite grouping is a challenge that needs to be answered. To solve the issue both by attracting federal funds and by private investment. Private business has become the number one priority of the current management of the state corporation. Based on this, we have rethought the launch program and regard deviation from this program as a violation of obligations with corresponding conclusions.
- How are the negotiations with private business on the formation of a satellite grouping going?
- We are in an active dialogue with representatives of private business who wanted to engage in this activity. We find common ground, legal support for this issue. We have prepared two bills on the commercialization of Roscosmos' activities in outer space, we will amend the law on space activities, which allows private owners to attract funds and work in outer space, to fill the needs of the market. This work is coordinated at the government site by First Deputy Prime Minister Andrei Belousov. At this stage, a roadmap has been formed and we are jointly thinking about sources of financing for the work under the leadership of the government.
- What other steps have been taken to increase the Russian satellite grouping?
- We are considering all possible options for increasing the satellite grouping. We have once again analyzed all the leading contracts, all the obligations assumed. We place special emphasis on the implementation of the Sphere program, within the framework of which a multi-satellite grouping is being created at the expense of public funds.
As part of this program, we are currently working on the possibility of shifting "to the left" in terms of the time of this work and we hope that this year the first satellite from the Marathon group will be launched a year ahead of schedule.
In addition, we are actively working with potential consumers of these services - the leadership of the regions and federal ministries, in whose interests the construction of satellites is possible. We must form a unified program and ensure the qualitative and quantitative growth of the grouping in the near future, and not in some distant one.
Building up the satellite constellation is the number one priority in the current activities of Roscosmos. First of all, spacecraft that solve the problems of remote sensing of the Earth and communications.
- Are private traders also involved in this work?
- Private traders occupy their niche. For example, the same satellites - some are trying to repeat the path traveled by OneWeb or Mask with SpaceX. We do not interfere with their work in any way, on the contrary, we are trying to find compromises.
The state should understand what the money is being spent on, because it is a lot of money. It is necessary to calculate the financial model so that this activity is not unprofitable and is in demand not only by the state, but also primarily by citizens.
As you know, OneWeb went broke. Our financial capabilities differ from those of other partners, so we are obliged to calculate three times and measure seven times before taking these steps.
The general leitmotif of the current activity of Roscosmos is openness to any initiatives. It is necessary to completely destroy the myth that Roscosmos enterprises are closed to the outside world. It is impossible to be closed in the current reality. It is necessary to be receptive to the market and to initiatives not only within the industry, but also to external ones. Therefore, we are actively working with young people and with big business.
- You mentioned OneWeb, recently they announced that they had given up trying to return their 36 satellites from Baikonur.
- The story of the satellites at Baikonur and the situation with the Soyuz rockets at the Kourou cosmodrome will go to the courts.
- And what about the Baiterek project on Baikonur?
- The Baiterek project exists, it works. There are small roughnesses in the implementation, as with any large-scale complex project, Roscosmos, together with Kazakh partners, overcomes them. We do not intend to withdraw from the project.
- It was reported that Roscosmos is considering the possibility of supplying RD-191 rocket engines to India from 2024 to 2029. Has the contract been signed?
- Now we are discussing the details, characteristics and volume of deliveries. We hope to enter into a contract in the near future. We do not interrupt cooperation with anyone, we are open to all foreign customers.
- What other projects are foreign customers interested in?
- We are actively working in the satellite direction - a number of states are very interested, I cannot disclose details until contracts are signed.
- And with China?
- We have mutual offers to each other. We are actively working on the lunar program, working out those missions that the Russian Federation is conducting.
- In what currency are settlements made with foreign customers?
- Calculations in US dollars have been minimized by the state corporation. There are problems with the calculations, they concern both payment for the work performed by Roscosmos and transfers from Roscosmos to our foreign partners. There are problems, we are overcoming them. This does not stop the work at Roscosmos and is not an insurmountable obstacle.
- How do you assess the joint work with NASA now?
- Space remains one of the few niches where joint work with representatives of various states does not stop, despite the political situation. The position of the management of the state corporation: space is out of politics.
Any war ends sooner or later at the negotiating table. And we are doomed to interstate cooperation in terms of moving to other worlds and planets. Space is a unifying thing.
As for NASA, we have established working contact with the Americans, specialists communicate on a daily basis, the cross-flight program is working, we do not intend to stop and are ready to expand this cooperation.
- Have the Americans approved the candidacies of Belarusian cosmonauts, one of whom will go to the ISS?
- Officially, they will soon have to confirm, they said in a working order that they do not mind. The papers have to come.
- It was reported that by April 12, the appearance of a promising Russian orbital station will be presented. Is the project ready?
- On April 12, the General Director plans to inform the president about the progress of work, but not about the final appearance of the station. We have carried out work to determine the orbit on which the ROS will be located. Now the Rocket and Space Corporation Energia is carrying out the preliminary design stage, which will determine the future appearance of the station. Completion of the preliminary design is scheduled by the end of the year.
ROS will replace the ISS. At the level of Roscosmos, based on the results of the commission's work, a decision was made on the possible operation of the Russian segment of the ISS up to and including 2028. Yes, it will require investments and certain work.
- What tasks will the ROS solve in orbit?
- The stage of the preliminary design itself implies that after it and at this stage there is a high probability of making changes to the appearance of the station and its completion, based on the prevailing views.
When designing the ROS, we are also open. We have expanded the range of organizations as much as possible to determine the station's objectives. We invited all leading educational institutions, all scientific organizations that deal with the problems of space, so that they would have the opportunity to express their opinion on what tasks the ROS is being built for.
- It was reported that the ROS will not be permanently inhabited and will be able to work in automatic mode. Will the station be able to operate without astronauts afterwards?
- By and large, no one disputes that in the near future there will be no tasks in low Earth orbit that cannot be solved automatically without human participation. However, the departure of a person from orbit is equivalent to the loss of competencies exponentially: one year of absence is equal to five years of lag in manned cosmonautics.
Therefore, in no case will Russian cosmonauts leave the orbit, and we are sure that there will always be an interesting and in-demand job for them in space.
- How much is the required amount of financing for the construction of the ROS estimated?
- Based on the results of the preliminary design, we will understand, but it will definitely be hundreds of billions of rubles. According to our estimate, this is from 300 to 600 billion rubles. The money will be divided according to the stages of construction. This is the sum with all the ships and infrastructure.
The first stage of construction is estimated at 350 billion rubles, which will create a station where crews will arrive and work on spacecraft. We estimate the creation of the full image of the ROS at more than 600 billion rubles. But this figure is not finite.
Yes, the figure is significant, we are as scrupulous as possible about all technical solutions, understanding the full extent of the financial burden on the country's economy.
- How will the creation of the station take place in stages?
- The first stage involves the creation of the core of the station - this is the scientific and energy module, node and gateway modules, the base unit, and at the second stage - bringing the station to the design configuration by docking the target modules.
We see the primary task of the station as beneficial for the socio-economic development of the country. The ROS will be equipped with targeted equipment for carrying out work in the interests of the national economy, fundamental and applied science.
Each of the target modules created at the second stage will receive its own separate functional purpose, we will coordinate the technical specifications for them with the interested departments.
- How are things going at the Vostochny Cosmodrome?
- To ensure the launch of the Angara launch vehicles, the construction of the facilities of the second stage of the Vostochny cosmodrome with parallel installation of technological equipment is being completed.
Roscosmos has created an operational and technical group to coordinate and monitor the implementation of work on the creation of a heavy-class space rocket complex at the cosmodrome, which is considering issues related to the coordination of construction, installation and testing work.
- It was reported that there was a shortage of labor at the facility. Are there enough builders at the cosmodrome now?
- The number of employees involved in the construction corresponds to the construction organization project.
- When will the first Angara rocket arrive at the cosmodrome to conduct flight tests on Vostochny?
- In May 2023, it is planned to deliver to the Vostochny cosmodrome a full-size electric refueling model of the Angara heavy-class launch vehicle for complex testing of units and systems of technical and launch complexes. The production of the Angara-A5 rocket, intended for flight tests, is being completed. The expected delivery date of the Angara-A5 to the Vostochny cosmodrome is September 2023.
All this makes it possible to ensure readiness for the start of flight tests of a heavy-class space rocket complex in 2023.
- Are you satisfied with the number of launches from Vostochny? Does the cosmodrome fully fulfill its function?
- The cosmodrome has not yet been put into operation in full. There is a backlog for certain objects. Of the two stages of construction, we have not yet completed the first. But we consider the Vostochny Cosmodrome as the main launch site in the future.
- It was reported that the timing of flight tests of a promising new generation transport vehicle (PTK NP) depends on the start of financing the construction of infrastructure for it at the Vostochny cosmodrome. Is it clear when these funds will be allocated? When does the state corporation plan to start flight tests of PTK NP?
- Flight tests of the PTK were originally planned to be carried out with docking to the International Space Station. Now, taking into account the fact that we are simultaneously working on the creation of a PTK and a new orbital station, it seems logical to link their systems and synchronize the flight tests of the PTK with the deployment of the ROS.
Roscosmos is developing a federal project to create the ROS space complex, and funds for the creation of ground infrastructure for launching modules and manned spacecraft from the Vostochny cosmodrome will be included in this project.
We are not abandoning the project. The problems arose due to the fact that the programs are not interconnected. They grabbed the manned ship, not thinking about the other components of the flight to the Moon. As a result, the target program was decomposed into a bunch of separate tasks. But the project will be in demand. The reserve will be used, but the appearance will be different.
- Is the issue of creating a reduced copy of the PTK NP for flights to a promising Russian orbital station being considered?
- As for the creation of a new manned transport spacecraft for low-orbit flights, the work of RSC Energia in this direction is planned within the framework of the Federal Space Program for 2026-2036. The reserve obtained during the creation of the PTK is really planned to be used as much as possible, while the task of creating its "reduced copy" is not worth it. The new light ship will be developed on the principles of economy and seriality, and therefore not all systems of the lunar spacecraft will be in demand in the new ROC.
- How much does Russia spend per year on the maintenance of the Russian segment of the ISS?
- On board the station, our cosmonauts do a huge amount of scientific, applied and research work under the auspices of the Russian Academy of Sciences, and their work schedule is much more stressful than most people on Earth. The average annual cost of operating the Russian segment of the ISS, taking into account the creation of launch vehicles and launches, is about 35 billion rubles.
- Will the ISS funding increase due to the need to devote more time and money to maintaining the station's operability?
- The volume of work to maintain the plant's operability in the total share of costs is certainly growing, but at the moment this does not affect the growth of the total cost of operating the Russian segment, since it is balanced by the implementation of optimization measures for other types of expenses.
- How do the enterprises of the industry fulfill the tasks of diversifying production? What is the share of civilian products of state corporation enterprises?
- We have made very good progress in the fuel and energy complex, medicine and transport. More than 35 Roscosmos enterprises are involved in the implementation of production diversification projects. The share of civilian output in the total output of the state corporation's enterprises in 2022 is 21.9%.
In particular, in the interests of the fuel and energy complex of Russia, the MIT Corporation is developing the first domestic hydraulic fracturing fleet. The current stage is bench and field tests, planned to enter serial production from 2024.
The enterprises "Turbopump", NPO "Iskra", "VNIIEM Corporation", KBHA, UKVZ serially produce oil and gas products - pumping equipment, gas pumping units, downhole equipment, fountain fittings and column heads, shut-off valves and so on.
- How is the work going in terms of the production of medical equipment?
- The Khrunichev Center produces medical pressure chambers for treatment by hyperbaric oxygenation, the Reshetnev ISS is a mobile radiotherapy complex for the treatment of oncological diseases. Incubators for newborns and ventilators are also being created at Roscosmos enterprises.
- And in terms of transport and industry?
- Now the key project of NPO Avtomatiki is a radar for use in ADAS driver assistance systems, as well as automatic control systems for agricultural machinery, projects are ready for serial production. "MIT Corporation and Keldysh Center are jointly developing water treatment complexes for desalination and production of industrial, drinking and especially clean water.
It is also worth mentioning Ust-Katavsky Car-building Plant - a prototype elevator has been manufactured at the enterprise, at the moment the production facilities are fully ready, the staffing of the enterprise is being worked out by order.
- Has the number of Roscosmos personnel been optimized in 2022? How many seats have been cut?
- I do not consider the current structure of the state corporation to be optimal and appropriate for the tasks being solved, it will continue to be clarified. The number of employees of Roscosmos in 2022 was reduced from 673 to 610 full-time units. As part of the optimization measures, the organization's staff was reduced by 63 units.
- What is the total number of employees of the rocket and space industry now?
- As of December 31, 2022, the total number of employees of the rocket and space industry amounted to 170.5 thousand people.
