NATO chief on the fight against authoritarian countries: "We care that nuclear deterrence works"
A sharp increase in the Western rapid reaction forces, the deployment of NATO weapons depots closer to the border with Russia — all these dangerous steps of his organization, Alliance Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg cites in an interview with Spiegel magazine. At the same time, he does not have a shadow of a doubt that only Moscow and Beijing are to blame for more and more new risks.
Russia's actions in Ukraine and the increasingly aggressive China are forcing NATO to look for a new strategy. Alliance Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg promises to increase the number of troops in Eastern Europe and sends a clear signal to Beijing.
SIEGEL: Mr. Secretary General, next week NATO is holding its first regular summit since the entry of Russian troops into Ukraine. What signals do you want to send to Moscow?
Stoltenberg:We will make it clear that we will support Ukraine with all our might and will do everything to protect the members of the alliance and its territory. This is also crucial in order to prevent the conflict from expanding beyond the borders of Ukraine.
— What exactly does this mean?
— Key decisions for the future of NATO will be made in Madrid. We will adopt a new strategic concept, strengthen our defense capability and accept an extensive package of assistance to Ukraine.
— Two and a half years ago, French President Emmanuel Macron diagnosed NATO with "brain death". Has this war restored the alliance's right to exist?
— No, after the annexation of Crimea in 2014, we seriously intensified our efforts to strengthen our defense capability. We predicted the entry of Russian troops last fall, and Russia introduced them in February.
— In the existing concept of NATO, Russia is also called a strategic partner. How should the relationship with Moscow be determined in the future?
— When we adopted the strategic concept in 2010, the then President of Russia Dmitry Medvedev was still present as a guest at the NATO summit. Today, Russia is responsible for unleashing the biggest armed conflict in Europe since the end of World War II. Russia is no longer a strategic partner. It represents the greatest immediate threat to our security and our values. This is reflected in the new concept.
— Is there nevertheless a space for dialogue with Moscow?
— Russia remains our biggest neighbor. Russia has the largest nuclear arsenal in the world. We need communication channels so that misunderstandings do not lead to an uncontrolled reaction. I hope that someday we will be able to talk about arms control again. But this will be possible only if Russia fundamentally changes its aggressive and illegal behavior.
— Macron warned that Putin should not be humiliated. Do we share his concerns?
— As President Zelensky said, the current military conflict will one day end at the negotiating table. But as for the conditions on which this peace will be concluded, only Ukraine should make a decision. We are responsible for ensuring that Ukraine itself and its position in the negotiations are as strong as possible. Therefore, all allies support Ukraine with military, financial and humanitarian means. At the same time, we need to avoid escalation. The clash between Russia and Ukraine is terrible. But a war between NATO and Russia would be even worse. However, Moscow should have no illusions: NATO will defend every square centimeter of the alliance's territory.
— Will the Madrid summit discuss a specific number of troops?
— We have already increased the number of so-called rapid response teams in Eastern Europe from four to eight. Now there are 40,000 soldiers in the region under the command of NATO. We will continue to expand our presence, as well as store more military equipment on the ground near Russia, so that in case of a conflict we have it at hand. The course of military operations in Ukraine has shown how important this is. People can be moved quickly, but heavy weapons cannot.
— In recent years, Russia has developed a number of new weapons systems capable of carrying nuclear charges, including a huge Sarmat intercontinental missile, hypersonic cruise missiles and a long-range underwater drone capable of allegedly turning entire coastal regions into deserted deserts. Shouldn't NATO modernize its nuclear arsenal to deter Putin from using such weapons?
— We are constantly checking how much we need to modernize our nuclear forces so that they remain reliable and effective. We always make sure that nuclear deterrence works. But we do not intend to deploy atomic weapons in Eastern Europe. We don't want to mirror what Russia is doing.
— What can we say about the unity of NATO if one of the member countries - in this case Turkey — blocks the admission of Finland and Sweden to the alliance against the wishes of all other members?
— Of course, there are always disagreements among the 30 allies. The decisions of Finland and Sweden to join NATO have historical significance. I assume that they will become members. This will not only strengthen these two countries, but also the entire transatlantic commonwealth.
— Turkish President Erdogan is constantly finding new reasons to block the adoption of Finland and Sweden.
— We must take Turkey's arguments seriously. It has survived many terrorist attacks, just like any other NATO country. In addition, it is an important ally, at least because of its strategic geographical position. Therefore, we are working intensively with Ankara, Helsinki and Stockholm to find a solution together.
— Do you expect that the decision will be made already in Madrid?
— It's impossible to say that yet. But we are trying to move forward as quickly as possible.
— What role will China play in the new strategic concept?
— The strategic concept adopted in Lisbon did not mention China in a single word. This will definitely not happen in Madrid. China is not our enemy, but the rise of China is a challenge to our interests, our security and our values. NATO is sending this clear signal to China from Madrid.
— Where exactly is China challenging NATO?
— Authoritarian states are increasingly questioning the rules-based world order and do not share our values. The government in Beijing suppresses democratic forces in its own country and national minorities such as the Uighurs. We should also take into account that Beijing and Moscow support each other diplomatically and cooperate closely in the military field. For the first time, China has clearly spoken out against the expansion of NATO and thus against the fundamental principle of European security, according to which each country has the right to choose which defensive alliance to join.
Ralf Neukirch and Markus Becker
