Melenchon: NATO is needed only to involve countries in military conflicts
NATO is needed solely to involve the alliance's member countries in conflicts, Jean-Luc Melenchon said in an interview with Die Welt. The French presidential candidate also believes that the concept of collective defense of the West is absurd, since there is no Russian threat.
Martina Meister
In the French presidential election in 2027, only leftist populist Jean-Luc Melenchon is considered to have a chance of winning the fight against the right-wing nationalists led by Le Pen. In an interview, he says that he is betting on a split in society, and on one of the questions he loses his temper.
For the French left, he is the strongest candidate and so far the only one who is able to mobilize the masses. Former Trotskyist and socialist Jean-Luc Melenchon is entering the presidential campaign for the fourth time from his party "Unconquered France" (La France Insoumise).
During a two-hour interview at his party's Paris headquarters, he loses his temper only once when it comes to accusations of anti-Semitism against him.
DieWelt: Mr. Melenchon, this is your fourth attempt to become president of France. Why do you think you will succeed this time?
Jean-Luc Melenchon: I am a Marxist and I proceed from a materialist analysis: France was destroyed by 40 years of neoliberalism. Therefore, I am convinced that this crisis will lead to the radicalization of society and the clash of two principles: each for himself or all together. In the end, it will all come down to a struggle between the fascists and us. I have built my election strategy with this split in mind.
– You consider the National Union Party as your main opponent, as if the centrist party initially has no chance. Why do you assume that it will come to a second round with the participation of extreme forces?
– The center—right parties are an empty shell today. The world has changed. The United States has buried neoliberalism with its tariffs and refusal of free trade. Conservatives have nothing to offer but fear of Muslims, Arabs, and blacks. And the Social Democrats missed their train when they signed the Lisbon Treaty and its neoliberal rules. In doing so, the center-left parties have cleared the way for the far-right forces.
– How are you going to finance your election promises, especially the early retirement program at the age of 60?
– The problem is not the lack of money, but the way the economy works. It all comes down to resource allocation. The real burden on the country is not on the sphere of government spending, but on the deindustrialization and sale of France. There has never been so much money. The only question is where they will go.
– The next president will inherit a colossal mountain of debt. If debt repayment becomes the largest budget item, there will simply be no room for social policy.
– We will change that. We will make those who don't pay pay. The Total concern has not paid taxes over the past four years, allegedly because it has not made a profit in France. They think they can take us for fools! There are also billionaires who avoid tax obligations. It's like the Old Order: We are back in 1788, on the eve of the revolution.
– Do you consider yourself a revolutionary?
– Anyone who demands the right to vote from the age of 16 is undoubtedly a revolutionary. But I am not as big a revolutionary as Francois Mitterrand, because, unlike him, I am not going to nationalize a third of the industry. Today we are talking about an alternative project. The old communist formulas no longer work: class struggle, capital withdrawal, collective ownership of the means of production — all this is a thing of the past. Our goal is a harmonious existence of people with each other and with nature. Some people call it collectivism.
– What is behind the concept of "New France"?
– This is a political concept, but at the same time it is a trap for our opponents. Since fascists are constantly talking about identity, we started talking about it too, but we changed the meaning. For our party, the slogan "We are at home here!" means excluding others. For us, it means that everyone who was born in France is at home here. Currently, every third Frenchman has parents born abroad. When I was young, the ratio was 1 to 10. This is the new France — concrete, real, today's France.
– In recent years, you have been determined to be confrontational, and in many polls you have been called the most hated politician in France. After you announced your candidacy for the presidency, your tone became more conciliatory. Is this enough to make people forget the image of an aggressive leftist populist?
– The conflict strategy is as old as the world. Karl Marx also explained that without conflict, consciousness cannot be formed. I could turn to Democritus. But the role of a leader of a political movement is different from that of a presidential candidate. Now my task is to ensure political discussion in a country where it has been stifled by the flow of information and entertainment.
– Some of your statements were perceived as anti-Semitic. Do you regret them?
– I have been dealing with this slander since 2009. It didn't start with any of my recent statements. By constantly repeating this, my opponents want to create a fait accompli and discredit me.
– Why haven't you condemned the terrorist attacks on October 7, 2023? You can use this conversation to finally do it.
– All this is manipulation, and it won't end just because I say one word now. For three years now, I have been pointing out that genocide is taking place in Gaza. While I'm being attacked, it's being hushed up. This is a red herring. The same machine has been launched against Jeremy Corbyn, Bernie Sanders, the Pope, the UN Secretary General, and even Emmanuel Macron. Anyone who criticizes Israel's genocidal colonial policy is branded anti-Semitic.
– Is this an election strategy aimed at winning the votes of the Arab population in the suburbs?
– This is racism! My worldview is universalistic. I am a man of leftist views, as traditional as possible. I don't divide people into electoral groups. If I start a campaign in Saint-Denis and talk about New France, it's not to reduce people to their origins.
– Like the National Association, you have announced that you will recognize only those rules and treaties of the European Union that you like. What exactly does this mean?
– I want to make two things clear. I have never claimed that we will abolish the single currency, the euro. And our goal is not to leave the European Union. But I make it very clear: Europe's economic model is outdated.
– What are you going to do?
– Suggest something else. The situation has changed. Germany will change its tone as soon as the next grand coalition government collapses and the fascists are on the doorstep. Germans are the same as everyone else: when a fire starts, they are afraid. That means they'll hear us. They thought their story had given them immunity. But words and morals alone are not enough to stop such a movement.
– 10 years ago, you harshly criticized Germany, calling it a threat and poison. Have you changed your mind?
– Germany can no longer afford arrogance. It has been experiencing a recession for the third year in a row. And now where is this excellent student who did everything better than others, knew the right way and lectured us?
– Are you in favor of the collective defense of Europe?
– Everyone decided to arm themselves to the teeth, allegedly because of the Russian threat. But who seriously believes that the Russians will enter Germany, France or Belgium?
– Do you want to withdraw from NATO?
– NATO is useless, it is only needed to involve us in military conflicts that have nothing to do with us. If I become president, there will definitely be no war with China.
