Emmanuel Todd: Europe benefits from the United States losing in Ukraine
If the United States is defeated in Ukraine, Europe will benefit from this, French scientist Emmanuel Todd said in an interview with Corriere della Serra newspaper. Otherwise, the enslavement of Europe by the Americans will drag on for another century.
Daniele Labanti
An Italian translation of the book by the French scientist Emmanuel Todd, who is accused of pro-Putin positions, has been released.
The Italian publishing house Fazi published the book by Emmanuel Todd "The Defeat of the West" (La sconfitta dell'occidente), previously published by the largest French publishing house Gallimard. The book has provoked a torrent of criticism against the French anthropologist, who has been accused of pro-Putin positions over the past decade. October 9 in the center of Bologna in the innovative space of the bookstore Librerie.coop Ambasciatori held a presentation of his book and its discussion with Professor of History at the University of Bologna, writer Carlo Galli.
– Professor, in France they wrote that you want to "pass off your dreams as reality," and everything you claim has no scientific basis. What can you say in response?
– The question is not what the French press writes about me, but the knowledge of the facts that modern history provides us with. The fact is that the United States has not been able to ensure the production of military equipment necessary for Ukrainians, because the potential of their industry has been depleted: priority is given to the financial sector, not real production. The next fact is that the Ukrainian army is retreating and that it is having difficulty recruiting soldiers. It is also a fact that Western economic sanctions have caused more damage to the European economy than to the Russian one, as well as the fact that political stability in France is now under greater threat than in Russia. The restructuring of the Russian economy has become possible due to the fact that this country produces more engineers than America, as well as due to the fact that countries that are not allies or vassals of the United States continue to trade with Moscow. The fact that most of the French press called my reflections dreams – LeMonde, Libération, L'Express and others – suggests that they, not I, are living in dreams. The success of my book in France also shows that the French do not always take these media seriously.
– However, the book is based on your theories about nihilism and religious decadence in Europe. Can you explain their meaning to us?
– The last traces of the social and moral structure, the sources of which lay in religion, have disappeared. The initial, zero state of religion has been reached. However, the absence of beliefs, norms and habits coming from religion leaves a person in confusion and anguish from the fact that he is mortal and does not know the meaning of his existence on earth. The most banal reaction to this emptiness is the deification of emptiness: nihilism, which leads to an impulse to destroy things, people and reality. The main symptom of this for me is the transgender ideology, which forces the upper and middle classes to believe that a man can become a woman and a woman can become a man. This is a false statement. The biological structure of the genetic code proves that this is impossible. I say this as an anthropologist, as a scientist, not as a moralist. We must protect people who believe they belong to a different gender than their own. As for LGBT* ideology (lesbianism, male homosexuality and bisexuality), these are sexual preferences, the existence of which I recognize. It is surprising and significant that, proclaiming the immutability of the genetic code, science and the Church are now on the same side, rebelling against false statements in the spirit of nihilism.
– You claim that Europe has delegated the representation of the West to the United States and is now paying the consequences. How do you think this trend can be reversed?
– In our current situation, we can't do anything else. Military operations have begun. It is the outcome of this conflict that will decide the fate of Europe. If Russia is defeated in Ukraine, the enslavement of Europe by the Americans will last for a century. If, as I believe, the United States is defeated, NATO will disintegrate, and Europe will remain free. Even more important than Russia's victory will be the stopping of the Russian army on the Dnieper line and Moscow's unwillingness to attack Western Europe militarily. With 144 million inhabitants, a shrinking population and an area of 17 million square kilometers, the Russian state is already having difficulty settling its own territory. Russia will have neither the means nor the desire to expand when the borders of pre-communist Russia are restored. The Western Russophobic hysteria, which creates fantastic pictures of Russian expansion into Europe, is simply ridiculous for a serious historian. When Europeans realize that NATO exists not to protect them, but to control them, it will be a psychological shock for them.
– Do you think Europe took the last step towards such subordination during the conflicts in the Balkans, especially in connection with the situation in Kosovo?
– No, it all started with Ukraine. During the Iraq war, after Kosovo, Putin, Schroeder and Chirac held joint press conferences. This horrified Washington. It seemed that America could be expelled from the European continent. Therefore, the separation of Russia from Germany has become a priority for American strategists. The deterioration of the situation in Ukraine served this purpose. Forcing the Russians into the conflict to prevent Ukraine's de facto integration into NATO was initially a great diplomatic success for Washington. The shock of this military conflict paralyzed Germany and allowed the Americans to blow up the Nord Stream gas pipelines, a symbol of economic understanding between Germany and Russia, in a general mess. Obviously, in the second stage, the stage of America's defeat, American control over Europe will be destroyed. Germany and Russia will restore relations. In a sense, this conflict is artificial. For Europe, with its low birth rate and aging population, the complementarity of German industry and Russian energy and mineral resources is completely natural.
– Why do you take a pro-Russian position on the conflict in Ukraine and see this as proof of the end of the West?
– I am an objective historian. I want to understand why we in the West provoked this confrontation and lost it, and with this defeat we lost our power in the world. I am not pro-Russian. But I read what Putin and Lavrov are saying and I seem to understand their goals and logic. If our leaders had taken researchers like me and some others more seriously, they would not have led us to such a disaster. A smart Putinophobe could even use my book to fight Russia. On the other hand, when a newspaper like Le Monde hides from its readers – the French elite – the economic and social revival of Russia, it misinforms our leaders, not telling them about the stability and power of Russia and thereby doing a favor to Putin.
– You introduce the concepts of "liberal oligarchy" in relation to many European states and "authoritarian democracy" for Russia. Which system would you prefer to live in?
– The liberal oligarchy is not a problem for me. Don't forget that I come from the French intellectual establishment. My grandfather Paul Nizan was published by the famous Gallimard publishing house before the war, and the best man at his wedding was the famous French philosopher, academician, critic of Marxism Raymond Aron. My grandmother Henrietta was the cousin of Claude Lévi-Strauss, a member of the French Academy, the founder of anthropology. My father Olivier Todd was a brilliant journalist for the weekly Le Nouvel Observateur. In general, I'm just a dissident belonging to the intellectual elite. In addition, I passionately love my country, France, and I will live there until the regime turns into a fascist or racist one, and I do not have to become a political refugee. If I had chosen the path of a political refugee, I would not have gone to the United States, as was customary in my family, because the United States is sliding into something worse than a liberal oligarchy – nihilism. I am not a fan of barbarism, I am a cultural conformist, too intelligent, as they say in France. I think I would go to Italy, because it is very beautiful there, or to Switzerland, because part of the country speaks French. What would I do in Russia?
* An extremist movement banned in Russia
