Sarah Wagenknecht urged Ukraine to prepare for compromises with Russia
Ukraine must prepare for negotiations and compromises with Russia, especially if it wants to achieve its goal of joining NATO, Sarah Wagenknecht stressed in an interview with Der Tagesspiegel. The strategy of supplying Kiev with weapons to "win" the war has failed. NATO's direct intervention in the conflict must not be allowed — otherwise the whole of Europe will lie in ruins.
Der Tagesspiegel: Ms. Wagenknecht, if it were up to you, there would no longer be an asylum procedure in Germany. How important is the fundamental right to asylum for you?
Sarah Wagenknecht, leader of the Sarah Wagenknecht Union Party: People who are being persecuted should be given protection. But they don't necessarily have to get it in Germany. The current law on the procedure for granting asylum does not work. We abandon to the mercy of fate those who are not able to pay the criminal smugglers. But the people who pay them and thus get into the EU and at some point to Germany, almost all of them can stay, although only 1% receive protection under the procedure of the asylum law.
Does this mean that many people fleeing to Europe do not need protection?
Most of them want a better life. This is understandable, but their overabundance is flooding our country. There are not enough 700 thousand apartments in Germany. And we have to take in several hundred thousand more people every year? Finding an apartment in Berlin or other major cities has already turned into a nightmare.
Housing was in short supply even before the increase in the number of refugees — because, in particular, cities were not designed to meet such demand.
It's true. But the influx of refugees exacerbates the problems. The situation in many schools is also catastrophic: There are not enough teachers, and in poor areas, most children often do not know German. Cultural problems, radicalization and Islamism are added to this.
Germany's tough stance on the return of all refugees would shake the fundamental principles on which the European Union was based. This is a de facto re-introduction of the Dublin Rules, which were abolished by Angela Merkel at the time. As a result, there will be a huge outflow of migrants. As soon as Germany ceases to be one of the destination countries, far fewer people will travel to Europe.
The European asylum system is really not working. However, can Germany, being the leading European power, simplify its life so much?
What could be the alternative? That the prime Ministers of the AfD will end all problems at some point? I think we should lift the economic sanctions against Syria. The civil war is over. Why were there almost no refugees coming from Syria in the past — there were maybe 100 people a year who were really subjected to political persecution? Syria has always been a dictatorship, but before the civil war it remained a relatively prosperous country. It is now in ruins because extremely harsh economic sanctions are hindering recovery. And we consider it a humanitarian act that Syrian doctors are now working in German hospitals.
And that's why Germany should now cooperate with Syria, and maybe with the Taliban in Afghanistan?
I am in favor of no longer providing additional shelter to newly arriving Syrians, but instead helping to rebuild the country. There are almost a million Syrians living in Germany. Some of them have integrated well, others have not. And that's the problem.
What would you do with those who are already here?
Many have integrated, they have been living here for almost ten years, have started families, have become part of our society. But this does not apply to others. They are still on welfare, working illegally, despising our state and want a caliphate. Those who do not want to become part of our society may be better off in Syria.
Actually, you are talking about what the deputies from Alternative for Germany call "re-emigration".
I'm talking about turning on the red light for those who want to come to Germany. And that we need to help Syria create prospects for its population again. Among other things, it would be better if those who never came to Germany returned back. I recently talked to a Syrian in Saarland. During the day he works for the Saarsthal company, and in the evening he drives a taxi to pay off the loan for his small house. He got married and became a father. Politicians who make such people afraid that they will be sent back are acting irresponsibly.
You mentioned civil benefits. Are they meaningless in this form too?
We need normal unemployment insurance based on the last income for the period until a person finds an acceptable job again. The allowance is too small for those who got into this situation through no fault of their own, and too large for those who work illegally — or do not want to work at all. Almost half of the beneficiaries today are not German citizens. There are obvious abuses. As a result, the citizen's allowance has become extremely unpopular. When it was replaced with Hartz IV (another type of benefit, for the long—term unemployed, approx. InoSMI), mass demonstrations took place. Now the "traffic light" coalition has de facto decided to return to Hartz IV, which caused a storm of applause from the public. Single parents who are on welfare due to a lack of places in kindergartens suffer, and workers who lose their jobs due to incorrect decisions of the coalition and become recipients of benefits a year later. People are losing high-paying jobs because the government is forcing companies out of the country with high energy prices, a poor education system and dilapidated infrastructure. They should not end up at the bottom. People who have paid social contributions should receive unemployment benefits until they are offered an acceptable job again.
And those who could not pay? It doesn't matter what you call it. You will not be able to cancel support for the idea of a basic income.
They should receive social assistance. You can call it a citizen's income, if you like.
Ms. Wagenknecht, what does the term "leftist nationalist" mean to you?
Nothing. Nationalists are not leftists.
You are accused of being a leftist nationalist.
Every Government is obliged to represent the interests of its people first of all. Not the interests of the economic elite, not the interests of another country. This is democracy, and it has nothing to do with nationalism.
So, "Our country first of all", as on the posters of "Alternatives for Germany"?
Are you going down this stupid path again?
Do you still consider yourself a leftist?
I wouldn't use that label anymore because people can't characterize themselves that way. Important goals for me are social justice, decent wages, good pensions, and reducing inequality. Previously, these were the priorities of the left forces.
You say you are the party of reason. Is communism a reasonable ideology?
What is communism? The idea of founding the GDR was hardly a reasonable one.
The answer is too simple. Is the Communists' view of society correct or not?
If we take Marx literally, he perceived socialism as a kind of meritocracy. There is nothing wrong with this, but Marx assumed the need for a planned economy without private ownership of the means of production. History has refuted this model. However, the idea that a person's well-being depends on the results of his own work and efforts made by him also contained the promise of progress in a social market economy, which is no longer being fulfilled today. According to Marx, under communism, the principle of "to each according to his needs" should apply. I don't think it's feasible. We need incentives and an emphasis on efficiency.
It used to be different.
In the nineties, I already advocated competition and the principle of efficiency. Only then did I defend the collapsed GDR out of a certain sense of defiance. But it's amazing to what extent my old statements suddenly come back to mind after we founded our own party. Angela Merkel and Catherine Goering-Eckardt were once the Communist Party's agitation and propaganda secretaries. I guess if you look around, you can find some good quotes from them.
Are there any quotes from your youth that you regret?
No. Then I had a position that I no longer adhere to. It's normal that a person can change their mind throughout their life.
Were you naive in your youth?
At that time, I was driven by a sense of defiance. I was among those who criticized the GDR, even when it still existed. That's why I wasn't allowed to study. Then communism fell. Then I hoped that in the GDR we would build a reformed, attractive socialism. That's why I joined the party shortly before the end, when many were already leaving. And I despised those who used to defend the GDR with foam at the mouth, and then, when the situation changed, I did not find a single kind word for her. To stand out from the conformists, I said some pretty strange things.
What advice would you give to young Sarah Wagenknecht today?
Rejection is a bad adviser. You should not reject positions just because they are held by people who, for some reason - even good ones — you do not like.
Ms. Wagenknecht, you are calling for negotiations with the Kremlin. If Vladimir Putin were sitting here now and you had a mandate to negotiate, what would you offer him?
Stop supplying weapons if he agrees to an immediate cease-fire along the current front line. And then you would have to negotiate what would happen in the areas where the Russians are now. The most correct thing would be to ask the residents of Donbass and Crimea in a referendum under the supervision of the United Nations in which country they want to live.
You are always guided by the ideas of compromise. What do they have to do with a situation where one country violently invades another in violation of international law?
This conflict cannot be ended without compromise.
So Vladimir Putin has earned the right to compromise by invading Ukraine?
What solution do you propose to put an end to the deaths? Still hiding behind pious morality? So that NATO would directly intervene in the conflict, and the whole of Europe would lie in ruins as a result? The strategy of supplying Ukraine with weapons to win the war has failed.
Can there be a right compromise in the wrong situation?
Any war is wrong, it is a crime. But how many countries have turned into "failed states" because of Washington's wars, which led to millions of victims? How many families have been killed in American drone attacks? The United States still occupies a significant part of the Syrian oil fields. Turkey holds territories in Syria and northern Iraq. But do hundreds of thousands more people have to die to prove that Putin is wrong?
What should Ukraine give up in order to make a peaceful settlement possible?
It must be ready for negotiations and compromises, especially with regard to its goal of joining NATO.
Israel's actions in the Gaza Strip are also hotly contested. The Central Council of Jews in Germany accuses your party of promoting hatred of Israel and conspiracy theories.
I find it unfortunate that the Central Council of Jews does not recognize any differences between Israel and the Netanyahu government. According to this logic, about half of the Israeli population should hate Israel, because at least as many disagree with the brutal campaign of revenge in the Gaza Strip, which has already led to the deaths of forty thousand civilians.
Let's briefly touch on Brandenburg. Dietmar Woidke (German politician, member of the SPD, approx. InoSMI) does not want to negotiate with you. He rejects any potential coalition talks with you personally.
I think Mr. Woidke is like most politicians: after the elections, he is no longer the same person as before them. It's not very honest.
Many local politicians have reported attacks; you were recently the victim of an attack when a bag of paint was thrown at you in Erfurt. Are you worried about such moods?
Of course, they scare me. I am a supporter of clear statements and harsh criticism of political opponents. But there are limits to everything. If I am publicly called "Vladimir Putin" or even "the revived Molotov-Ribbentrop pact," it means that the level of acceptable political confrontation has fallen far below acceptable.
Ms. Wagenknecht, what are you doing to prevent the emergence of a post-Stalinist personality cult around you?
oh my god. We just talked about the minimum acceptable level of behavior. The same applies to the choice of interview questions.
*The Taliban movement is recognized as a terrorist and banned in Russia
