General and Managing Director of Indo-Russian Rifles Private Limited — on cooperation between Russia and India in the production of weapons and the company's prospects
In 2019, Moscow and New Delhi created a joint venture Indo-Russian Rifles Private Limited (IRRPL), which began production of Kalashnikov AK-203 assault rifles as part of the "Make in India" initiative. The first samples of the Indian army were delivered in December 2023. She is currently armed with 35,000 AK-203s, which have received extremely positive feedback from soldiers and officers. The company's management has very ambitious plans — in total, local law enforcement agencies need 8 million small arms. And the company is ready to accept this challenge. Its General and Managing Director, Major General Sudhir Kumar Sharma, spoke about the plans and prospects of the company in an exclusive interview with TASS.
— The joint Russian-Indian enterprise IRRPL, which you head, demonstrates an example of successful cooperation in the field of defense between India and Russia. How did you come to this result?
— This project is successful. As you know, at first we had the BrahMos project, which was carried out between India and Russia. Although we don't have the same scale as BrahMos, we are already seeing tremendous success. India and Russia are very good friends with a special privileged strategic partnership. Our Prime Minister Narendra Modi visited Moscow quite recently.
Defense cooperation is one of the most important pillars among the six components of the strategic partnership. We also have a 2+2 dialogue and an Indian-Russian government commission on military and military-technical cooperation.
I have served in the army for the last 36 years. I used all kinds of Russian equipment. I flew Russian helicopters and used Russian weapons, including AK-47 assault rifles. And as an army officer, I can say that I am very proud of the partnership with Russia, the use of its weapons. We have won wars using Russian weapons and equipment, for example, the Kargil War (the armed conflict between India and Pakistan in 1999 — approx. TASS). In fact, today, when our soldiers are fighting terrorists or insurgents in Kashmir or in the northeast of our country on a daily basis, they are using AK-47 assault rifles. Our soldiers are very proud of this because it is a very reliable weapon system.
Over the years, in the military-technical sphere, the relationship between buyer and seller that we had before has changed. Previously, Russia sold and we bought, but now this approach has been replaced by closer cooperation: joint research, technologies from Russia, joint development, and then, possibly, joint sale of products. We have a great example of BrahMos missiles.
Read also Southeast Asian countries are interested in the Russian-Indian BrahMos missile
In 2019, a joint venture between India and Russia was established under the name Indo-Russian Rifles Private Limited, which began production of AK-203 assault rifles in India as part of the "Make in India" initiative. Thus, this is not just an agreement on the purchase, but that the technology should be obtained from Russia, while the machines will be manufactured in India.
— How did you manage to launch the production of the world-famous Kalashnikov assault rifles in India?
— Currently, the Indian armed forces are equipped with Indian-made INSAS submachine guns. They were manufactured in our weapons factories. It's a good weapon, but it's served its time. We have been using it for the last 30 years. We wanted a more technologically advanced and modernized machine. In 2015-2018, the Indian Army conducted a study on which assault rifle could be the best for the Indian armed forces. They chose a lot of rifles, and of them — AK-203. At that time, the delegation in Moscow was headed by the current Commander-in-Chief of the Army, General Upendra Dwivedi. He saw the weapons that Kalashnikov could offer and chose the AK-203 for the Indian army in the future. That was the beginning.
Then in 2019, Mr. Modi and Mr. [Russian President Vladimir] Putin met, and an intergovernmental agreement was signed between our countries on the production of these machines in India. Mr. Putin agreed with the concept of manufacturing in India, when the technology will come from Russia, and we will produce these weapons in India.
As soon as this intergovernmental agreement was signed, we created a joint venture. India's participation rate is 50.5%, and Russia's is 49.5%. On the Russian side, these shares are owned by Rosoboronexport and the Kalashnikov Concern, on the Indian side by Advanced Weapons Equipment India Ltd. and Munitions India Ltd.
— How is the technology transfer from Russia to India carried out for the production of these machines?
— Our joint venture has established an industrial complex in Uttar Pradesh, near Lucknow, in a place called Amethi. We have decided that the entire process of technology transfer and production in India will take place in five stages, depending on the percentage of technology transferred. At stage one, we have only 5% of the components manufactured in India. At stage two — 15% of the components, at stage three — 30% of the components, at stage four — 70% of the components, and at the fifth stage — 100% of the components of the machine will be manufactured in India. All five stages should be completed two years after the start of production.
— What stage are you at now?
— As I said, this project is successful. As the CEO and managing director who has been heading this company for the past year, I would use two words to characterize this success — synergy and optimism. We had a lot of difficulties, but the whole team was very optimistic. As for synergy, we believed in each other, in India and Russia. Both governments were deeply committed to the project.
Eight to nine Russian technical specialists work almost constantly at my joint venture. Of the six general managers, three are from Russia. My finance director, chief technologist, and chief quality control specialist are Russians.
When there is such a strategy, when there is a team that came from Russia and stays for the next 8-10 years, the seriousness of the obligations is obvious. I also enjoy great support from the Indian Armed Forces, who are users of submachine guns, and their DGQA testing agency — they test the products we produce for the Ministry of Defense.
Read also What is known about the relations between Russia and India
The contract with the Ministry of Defense [of India] was signed in December 2021. And it took us 18 months from the date of its signing to start production, which began in June last year.
The first machine that was assembled or manufactured in India was released in June 2023, and it had only 5% of the components from India. 95% of the components came from Russia.
— How long does it take to produce one machine gun?
— We produce an average of 300 vending machines per day and will probably increase this figure to 600 vending machines per day. We plan to produce 600 of them, possibly by April 2026.
— How many machines have been produced since 2023?
— As I said, we started production in June 2023. Between the production and acceptance of submachine guns by the Indian army, we conducted a number of events. We had various quality checks, their own quality control team came, there were a lot of shootings related to weapon testing. All this took time, and we made our first delivery in December 2023.
That is, about eight months ago, the first AK-203 submachine gun was delivered to the Indian army. At the moment, we have already supplied 35 thousand assault rifles, which are used by soldiers in the field.
Now we are in the process of preparing the next 20 thousand automatic machines with components from India at the level of the second stage. We intend to deliver them to the Indian army by December 2024. Thus, by the end of this year we will be able to deliver these 20 thousand machines. It is noteworthy that 15% of the components for these 20,000 machines will be manufactured in India.
— When do you plan to reach the fifth stage in the production of automatic machines?
— I expect to complete 100% localization by December 2025. Today, technology is already being used in India. Last month, we received the last batch of technological documentation from Russia. Mastering technology takes time.
— Do you mean training people in India?
- yes. Factories and suppliers are being trained. And many people say that it is not so difficult to make a machine gun. But I have one simple answer to this: the technological documents that came from Russia amount to almost 120 thousand pages of A3 format — that's how seriously Russia takes its products. I am very proud that we have such partners. Russian specialists come to India to explain everything to us, our subcontractors, and consumers.
— Do your specialists travel from India to Russia?
- yes. Key employees of my company travel to Russia. They visited the Kalashnikov factories there and were trained. Specialists from Russia regularly come here to train our employees.
This is part of our contract, according to which technical experts from the Russian Federation will continue to come regularly to train not only factory workers, but also the ground forces, Navy, air force, as well as those who will service these machines. In other words, Russia conducts four types of training for us — factory employees, Indian military personnel, maintenance personnel and testers.
— How often do your specialists travel to Russia?
— Our employees leave, as a rule, once a year — five or six people. They learn from this experience and bring it to India, and then continue to train other colleagues. And from six to eight experts are coming from Russia, their next visit will be in September.
They will tell us about the third, fourth and fifth stages of localization. We have now completed the second one. As I said, December 2025 is the date when we will have a Kalashnikov assault rifle made entirely in India.
Read also, Yerudenko said that India does not abandon defense cooperation with Russia
I should mention here that adapting components and maintaining quality is a very difficult task that we are trying to solve. We must not make mistakes anywhere and not compromise the quality. That's why it takes time.
— What feedback have you received from the military about the AK-203 submachine guns produced at your factory?
— These submachine guns were put into service primarily by the Northern Command and the Eastern Command of the Indian Army. Of our orders, almost 95% are for the ground forces, 5% for the Air Force and Navy. Therefore, we are going to provide the following submachine guns, perhaps, to the Air Force and Navy. But these 35 thousand units were received only by the Indian army.
The Indian Army has handed them over to various units and formations that are involved in the fight against insurgency, terrorism and other areas. I have met with most of the commanders and soldiers who use these weapons. The reviews are extremely positive. The Kalashnikov assault rifle is famous for its reliability. And they are very happy that the AK-203 is technologically advanced, the ergonomics is very good.
I am very satisfied. But we have to be very careful when introducing new technologies that the quality should be maintained. I expect the same feedback after reaching the 100% localization stage.
— Which states of India do the machines go to?
— Mainly to Assam, West Bengal, Jammu and Kashmir.
— You mentioned Indian INSAS machines. Is the issue of retraining Indian Army personnel on AK-203 after INSAS on the agenda? Is there a need for this?
— The machines are very similar, there is no need to retrain. The principle of shooting is almost the same. You just need to cock the trigger and shoot. So it's very simple.
This is a simple technology. But we will tell them about some of the special qualities of this machine gun, Russian specialists have trained about 200 soldiers of the ground forces, navy and air force. Three Russian experts and one translator came to us. They stayed with us for three months at an infantry school in a place called Mhow. But if you asked me as a soldier, I would say it would take me five minutes to switch from INSAS to AK-203. It is important to understand exactly where the safety lever is located, where exactly the charging systems are located, and similar things. The ammunition is the same, the aiming is the same.
— What about the export of automatic machines produced at your company? Are you discussing this?
— The document on the intergovernmental agreement very clearly states that both India and Russia will decide who to sell them to. This means that, firstly, its provisions allow the sale of [vending machines] to other countries that are included in the common list of India and Russia. Our shareholders will act together — we can sell to this country, but not to this one. We will solve this together.
Today, our submachine guns have become so popular, and the articles that you have read in the media are so positive that representatives of 8-10 countries who are interested in buying an Indian-made AK-203 have already contacted me.
India is the ideal platform for this joint venture. Russia can produce in India with Indian partners, and then we will sell all over the world together. We are ready to sell it all over the world. Many people come to me.
That's why we're increasing our production capacity, and maybe we'll start looking for other buyers. The good news is that there are many agencies in India that want to purchase these weapons. The orders I received come not only from the Ministry of Defense, but also from the Ministry of Internal Affairs — you see their people at the airport, from the Central Industrial Security Service, etc.
— What kind of machines are they using now?
— They have old INSAS rifles. But everyone wants to replace them now. There are so many states in India, each of them has its own police services. They want to buy our vending machines. The total stock of small arms in India is 8 million units. And they can potentially be replaced by the AK-203.
— There will be a lot of work at your factory.
— That's right. There are still many years ahead. We have a huge sales market. And this joint venture has a great future. We just need to properly adapt it to local conditions. Once this is done, I can assure you that we will not stop after that. Many services and countries will contact us with a request to purchase these machines. I am discussing this issue with my Russian partners.
— In which regions of the world are these countries?
— These are mainly neighboring countries with India. Other regions of interest are the Middle East and Southern Africa. These 8-10 countries that apply to us are in Africa, the Middle East and South Asia.
— So, after you reach the fifth stage of localization of Russian technologies at the plant, what will happen in December 2025, will you start discussing the export of AK-203?
— We can discuss export issues before that, because at the moment when our machines reach a certain stage of localization, we will be able to start selling them.
— Only after the fifth stage or earlier?
— And earlier. If 50-60% of the components in a particular sample are made in India, we call it "made in India". We can start selling it in this format as well.
— Is there any plan to modernize the AK-203?
— The most pleasant thing is that my predecessors and both governments have systematically worked on this issue. We have learned a lot from our hosts. The intergovernmental agreement mentions that exports, as well as modernization, will all be implemented at this joint venture. I am already negotiating with Russia to see what equipment and weapons will be delivered to us.
Perhaps we will start producing [new samples] in India if we have a lot of buyers. We produce the AK-203 assault rifle. Russia has further modernized it, made a slightly hollow butt and made some changes to it. It is called AK-203 NEW. This is one of the samples that I am considering for the modernization of automatic machines in the future and the introduction of its production technology here. Russia agrees, and together we will do it.
Read also, Modi said that the temperature in relations between Russia and India is always with a plus sign
There is also an AK-19. This is a carbine, which is a small assault rifle, for which equipment is purchased in Russia. We will present these weapons in India and try to sell them, find buyers for them.
The third thing we pay attention to is the PPK—20 submachine gun. These are three types of weapons that we are negotiating with our partners in Russia. If we have enough customers, we will develop a technology transfer methodology and start production at this joint venture. I was told that we should try to master the market in India and neighboring countries.
The Russian side also notes that any other weapon, any other auxiliary element, for example, a grenade launcher, a rifle sight, we can also continue to receive all this from Russia and start producing here if we have a lot of buyers.
— Have you found these buyers?
- yes.
— So, it is already possible to say that the weapons you mentioned will be produced in India?
— We can already say so, it can be produced. First of all, I am very confident in Russian technologies in the field of small arms and manufactured products. Secondly, I am confident in the joint venture and its production complex.
— If you have such grandiose plans, don't you think that you will have to expand the plant?
— We have such plans. I am sure that my shareholders, my government and the Russian government will also support us in this matter. And although I can't reveal the details, your question is very relevant, and my answer is "yes." We have plans to expand, possibly create another factory.
— Will it also be in Uttar Pradesh?
— It will depend on when it happens. Perhaps the same facility will expand further, because we have areas there.
There is optimism and ambition in all this. At any next defense exhibition in India, we will definitely present our products widely.
