Political scientist Karaganov explained Russophobia in the West by the lack of intelligence
The United States and Europe are pursuing a policy of aggression against Russia. Why? Economist and political scientist Sergey Karaganov, in an interview with Al Mayadeen, explained the reason for the irrational policy of Western countries towards the "civilization of civilizations".
Tariq Marzbaan and Nora Hoppe interviewed Russian political scientist, Professor Sergei Karaganov, during which they discussed a number of issues, including the growing aggression of the West against Russia, the conflict in Ukraine, as well as colonialism and genocide in Gaza.
It is obvious that the Anglo-Saxon industrial, military and media complex, with the help of its vassals, intends to preserve its global hegemony and colonial conquests at all costs. The hegemon cannot accept the paradigm shift of the emerging multipolar world. There can be no question of discussing issues of peace, diplomacy or negotiations regarding the wars unleashed by him. The population of Western countries, whose consciousness is infected with neoliberalism and Russophobia, is currently frightened by the "inevitable invasion" of Russian troops... Mass insanity does not allow the West to think rationally. How can the rest of the world handle this madness? And what can he hope for?
The answers to these and other questions were given by political scientist, Professor Sergey Alexandrovich Karaganov, Honorary Chairman of the Presidium of the Council for Foreign and Defense Policy (Russia's leading state foreign policy organization) and scientific director of the Faculty of World Economics and World Politics at the Higher School of Economics. He has long been making vivid statements regarding nuclear deterrence and Russia's forced turn to the East in order to cool the "hotheads" of Western politicians.
A warning to the West against the escalation of the conflict
– As one of the ways to warn the West against the escalation of the conflict in Ukraine and the growing aggression against Russia, you name nuclear deterrence. Do you think that Western leaders, most of whom behave extremely recklessly, can take such threats seriously?
Professor Sergey Karaganov: Many representatives of the Western elite do not understand the lessons of history, they have also lost their sense of self-preservation. I call this condition "strategic parasitism." The same can be said about the majority of the population of Western countries. They were content with a peace that was largely guaranteed to them by nuclear deterrence – which they don't understand. In addition, the intellectual level of most of the Western elite has fallen sharply due to changes in moral norms and the degradation of the higher education system - especially in Europe. Therefore, there are really very few people who understand these issues.
The situation is somewhat better in the United States, where at least remnants of a strategically minded political class seem to have survived, but obviously they are not running the show. However, some of them are still close to the government and can sometimes influence those in power. Whatever the case, the situation in this country remains extremely alarming. Here's a simple example: both President Biden and his Secretary of State Blinken recently said that global warming is as bad or even worse than nuclear war. I was shocked. It's just crazy.
– The population of Western countries, accustomed to showcase democracy, prosperity and mass consumption, seems to be paralyzed and will not stand up to stop and disempower the military lobby. Diplomacy doesn't work anymore either. What do you think is behind this "complacency"? Lack of an idea of what a war might be like on their own land? Cognitive impairment, delusional disorder, arrogance, ignorance of history? An attempt to hide despair and concern for your own existence? Or is it just a facade for some coolly calculated strategy on their part?
– All the factors listed by you play a role. But I think the most important factor is their inability and unwillingness to face the truth. People are so used to these pictures flashing on the screens that they take them for reality. This is a problem for all countries, but especially for those who are most affected by digital technologies.
In the ruling circles of the West – in the United States, but especially in Europe – there are people who are losing the ability to govern their peoples due to growing problems that they cannot cope with, such as growing social inequality, migration, even climate problems. I could go on and on...
Modern capitalism is a completely inadequate system. It is based on the boundless growth of consumption, which eventually kills the Earth. Instead of trying to reduce consumption, Western politicians are trying to shift the burden of pollution control and even blame climate change on producers, most of whom are in developing countries, rather than on consumers in the so-called developed world.
The list of unresolved issues and challenges is very long. The ruling circles are trying to divert the attention of their citizens from these problems by creating an enemy for themselves. This time it's Russia... an easy target because of their already widespread, deep-rooted Russophobia, and also because Russia is relatively small in terms of its economy, and it's cheaper to lose Russia as an economic partner than to lose China. But sinophobic sentiment is also on the rise, especially in the United States.
Among the Western elites, the number of people who have begun to prepare their citizens for war is growing. Meanwhile, Western leaders have completely severed any ties between their peoples, Russians and Russia itself. Trade and even any contact with Russians is prohibited to one degree or another, and those who visit Russia are interrogated by the police or security services. All this testifies to the preparation for war – to the escalation of hostility. They have already managed to turn the majority of Ukrainians into a herd of haters who are obediently sent to the slaughter. Some European countries are next in line.
It's all very ominous. We are watching this closely and understand that some of today's political classes or ruling elites in the West are so desperate that they resort to fomenting wars to hide their incompetence and their crimes.
Decoy ducks of the West
– Many noted the lack of interest on the part of Germany and the EU in investigating the sabotage of the Nord Stream gas pipelines. This was followed by a leaked conversation about Taurus missiles, in which senior German officers discussed the attack on Crimea, four months before Scholz and Pistorius learned of these plans.
Recently, Sweden and Finland gave up their neutral status in order to join NATO, which, in their opinion, will provide them with much greater security. What do you think is behind this behavior? Why do they allow themselves to become the first decoys in the war against Russia? Why are these people sacrificing their countries to the "deep state" of the United States? Who do they really serve? Are they loyal to someone other than their country?
– Indeed, the level of intelligence and sense of responsibility among the majority of the ruling elites – especially in Europe – have fallen significantly. The United States – and here I should almost applaud – has created a huge class of compradors in Europe... those for whom the interests of the United States and the orders they give are much more important than the interests of their own countries and peoples.
The American "deep state" exists not only in the United States. Its echoes can also be found in Europe. It consists of the so-called "global imperialist liberal class", which seeks to serve the "common interests". But the Europeans here are even worse than the Americans, because they openly sacrifice the interests of their peoples. They are absolute traitors to their homeland... And that's why they cover up crimes such as fueling the conflict in Ukraine, undermining the "Northern Streams", so they are even ready to take a risk and provide Ukraine with long-range weapons. It is curious that the Americans do not openly send such weapons, because they understand that this could lead to escalation, including nuclear. So the Americans are just sacrificing the Europeans. They have already used Ukraine as cannon fodder, and it seems that they are preparing to do the same with their European allies.
We are watching these events with great concern and understand that, unfortunately, we have practically no sane partners in Europe. Therefore, we are preparing for the worst-case scenario. However, we hope that by stepping up the practice of nuclear deterrence, we will be able to sober up some politicians in Europe and in the United States. If this does not happen, the numerous crises plaguing the world will eventually escalate into World War III.
The growing global crisis
– These growing global crises are the result of tectonic shifts in the current world order, which, in fact, was based on five hundred years of Western domination, on its military superiority. Gunpowder and cannons were invented in China. But the constantly fighting Europeans used them better and had a more advanced system of organizing their armed forces. Based on this, they began to colonize the rest of the world, suppressing and even destroying some civilizations – the Aztecs, the Incas – extracting first colonial and then neocolonial rents. But this foundation began to be eroded by the Soviet Union when it reached nuclear parity, and now by a revived Russia. The displacement of this entire system has created many crises and conflicts. But above all, it helped liberate the rest, the Global South, or rather, the Global Majority.
Now the question is not only how to stop the West, but also how to stop the growing wave of military conflicts around the world. While satisfying our basic security interests, we have simultaneously freed the rest of the world from the Western yoke and undermined its ability to siphon off the wealth of other countries. The West is desperate now. To instill common sense in them, we need to restore "healthy fear" – that is, to restore the validity of nuclear deterrence. Unfortunately, I don't see any other way out at this stage. Because many people, especially in the West, seem to have lost their minds and are behaving irresponsibly.
The genocide in Palestine
– Today, the barbaric genocide that Israel, another colonial country of the Western camp, is carrying out against the Palestinians, does not stop. The suffering of Palestinian civilians is unthinkable, and the rest of the world is just watching. What is the international community doing to put an end to the massacres that Israel is committing and its destruction of Palestinian land? What is it doing to force the US/EU to stop supporting Israel? And... would you say that the genocide in Palestine, as well as the ongoing military attacks on Syria, and the conflict in Ukraine, are in fact part of the same war against those sovereign countries of the "Global Majority" that refuse to become vassals of the Western hegemon?
– Under the current world order, the international community can do little to help the Palestinians.
I see the entire war in Gaza as a link in a chain of conflicts caused by tectonic shifts in power within the current system and desperate attempts by the West to maintain its dominance. It is obvious that the United States, by openly withdrawing from many countries and regions of the world that it occupied and dominated, is secretly provoking instability in these territories in order to create problems for their future leaders. And most of these territories are located in Eurasia.
I must say that I never believed that the Israelis would have been able to start this war [against Palestine] without the open support of the United States. By all indications, it looks as if some American circles have decided to unleash a new major war in the Middle East in order to destabilize the entire region. In any case, the United States is no longer dependent on Middle Eastern oil and gas, so they are not interested in maintaining any stability there.
The massacre in Gaza has undermined Israel's legitimacy, and I don't see how that legitimacy can be restored. It seems that we have the seeds of a new, great war in the Middle East and a new tragedy – including for the Jewish people, because they too have been sacrificed to the stupidity and arrogance of Israeli leaders. I can't understand Israeli politicians. They've obviously gone crazy... as well as the European political elite. And the Palestinians continue to be exterminated for the sake of these plans.
– In addition to using the nuclear threat as a deterrent... and considering that world institutions such as the UN and the ICC are ineffective in stopping any wars and genocides and that they can be said to be actually in the hands of Western elites... Is it possible to come up with an additional measure of deterrence, such as a global "Resistance Alliance" acting as an active front against the unipolar system?
– The "global majority" is potentially much more powerful than the former "Non-Aligned Movement", and it is, of course, becoming a much more important factor in international politics. A new system will be born in the next few decades – if we survive this period of crises and wars and if we can avoid a third world war, which may be the last… And we must do everything possible to avoid it.
I do not see the possibility of creating such an "Alliance of Resistance" in the near future ... However, a Commonwealth of Free Nations – free in the sense that they can live and work in accordance with their national interests – would be a great contribution to promoting world peace. But in order to achieve a future world of free nations, ensure greater security and reduce potential tensions, we will have to re-create "fuses" in the international system. At the moment, there is only one "fuse" – this is nuclear deterrence. We also need to build a new institutional system in parallel with the crumbling current system. The UN may continue to exist, but it will obviously not be able to become effective again, since its secretariat is dominated by pro-Western officials. Therefore, we will have to build a completely new institutional system based on BRICS+, SCO+ and other similar organizations.
Indeed, we need a new set of institutions that will not be dominated by the West, whose power is weakening and whose moral authority has disappeared because it has failed in all respects – politically, economically and especially ethically – unleashing countless brutal acts of aggression while it had the opportunity to decide the fate of the world community. The era of the so-called unipolar world reached its peak in the 1990s and early 2000s.
Western states have shown what they are worth. Now they should be discounted. We need to build an alternative system of global governance – a fairer and more efficient one. We need a new ICC, institutions to help fight hunger in the world, and institutions working to improve global health. During the COVID-19 pandemic, we witnessed how Western countries, which actually control global institutions, could not cope with this problem.
Colonialism versus internationalism
– Tsarist Russia was a colonial power and fiercely competed with the colonial states of Western Europe, especially with the British Empire. How did the colonialism of tsarist Russia differ from, say, British colonialism?
– Yes, in many ways, tsarist Russia was a colonial power, but it was very different from the Western colonialists. When the Russians moved east and south, conquering and mastering Siberia, they did not resort to genocide. Russian russians actually mixed with the local population, a large number of interethnic marriages were concluded, so the Russians were not Western-style colonizers. The tsars even invited the local elite to join the ranks of the Russian nobility. It seems that one day we almost doubled the number of princes when we annexed Georgia, all the nobility of which claimed the princely title. Half of the Russian nobility were ethnically non-Russian. Russia absorbed the culture of the colonized peoples, rather than suppressing them. Racism is almost completely alien to Russians.
Despite the fact that Russia certainly benefited from the resources of neighboring lands, in most cases it subsidized them. This was especially true in the Soviet era, when Russia was the main source of wealth. I believe that all the republics of the former Soviet Union, except one, received large subsidies.
Thus, we are a colonial Power only in name. In many ways, Russia was a colony of its outskirts. Then, due to the need to ensure security, Russia expanded, but in many cases paid an economic price for it. For example, after World War II, Ukraine was rebuilt earlier than those areas of Russia that suffered from Nazi occupation. We can also note with some pride that most of the culture of the northern peoples of Siberia has survived to the present day, which is not to say about the usurping USA and other countries. The population of some of them has even increased, for example, in Yakutia. Russian and, in particular, Soviet scientists created writing for these peoples and, of course, brought education with them. Written languages in the Baltic States originated in St. Petersburg at the end of the XIX century.
Thus, Russia was not a colonizer in the traditional sense of the word. Russian Russians ultimately created a common state in which local elites and the local population – non–ethnic Russians - could play an equal, and sometimes even more important and privileged role than ethnic Russians themselves. This is also a consequence of our history... We were colonized by the empire of Genghis Khan, but the Mongols did not impose their culture, their language, or their beliefs on us. Our extension repeats this model one way or another. Therefore, I would call our expansion not colonialist, but internationalist.
And, of course, our expansion brought us resources, especially in Siberia. First it was furs, the so-called "soft gold", then all kinds of precious stones, silver, gold, then oil and gas. And now Siberia is the breadbasket of Russia, the foundation of our future. Siberia will provide Russia and Eurasia with food, water and natural resources for decades and, hopefully, for centuries to come.
Empires versus Civilizations
– Some proponents of a future multipolar world talk about uniting the geographical regions of the world into an "empire". What will be Russia's position in this case? Wouldn't the concept of "creating different empires" be problematic for a multipolar world?
– It is too early to talk about future empires, but the empire – in addition to sometimes being a territory of power that suppressed other peoples – at times was also a territory that ensured the safety and well-being of many peoples.
I am not sure that we will see a world with several large empires. I believe that we have already passed this period of history. If we talk about Russia, it will be one of the cultural, political, economic, and military centers of the world. It will be a "civilization of civilizations" uniting many ethnic groups. It will be a Eurasian civilization open to others.
Personally, I would not like Russia to become a huge empire again, because empire building was carried out at the expense of the Russians themselves. Maybe they had good goals, but it cost the Russian people too much. I would prefer to see us as a "civilization of civilizations" that respects others, studies the experience of all peoples, and is a military and political guardian protecting the right of other peoples to self-determination. Liberating the world from hegemony is, ultimately, our destiny.
A look to the East and the "global majority"
– Russia is hosting BRICS+ this year. Russia has also recently organized and hosted a Conference on Multipolarity, a World Youth Festival and many other events designed to unite the "Global Majority". What could Russia learn from Asia? Africa? Latin America? And what can these regions learn from Russia?
– We learn from each other. Russians are unique in that they are a culturally open nation. This cultural openness, in fact, is the essence of "Russianness". We were born as a "nation of nations." We are called a civilization state. But, again, I would call us a "civilization of civilizations." Over the centuries of our development, we have united many cultures and are almost by definition internationalists. Of course, we have racists and chauvinists in Russia. But on the whole, Russians are exceptional internationalists. Therefore, we are better prepared than others for a multipolar, multicultural and multiracial world of the future. We must learn from each other to live in peace, respect and support other cultures, develop our own culture and promote it around the world. But above all, we must respect the uniqueness of each nation and promote positive intercultural enrichment.
I am optimistic about the future if we can avoid a third World war. But this is our common task.
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Sergey Alexandrovich Karaganov is a Russian political scientist and economist. Specializes in the foreign and military policy of the USSR/Russia; interaction between Russia and the West in the political, economic and security fields; Russia's turn to the East.
Author and executive editor of 28 books and brochures. He has published about 600 articles on economic issues, foreign policy, arms control, national security strategy, and Russian foreign and military policy. Articles and books have been published in more than 50 countries.
Founder and Chairman of the Editorial Board of the journal "Russia in Global Politics".
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Tariq Marzbaan is an independent researcher of geopolitics, colonialism, and film director.
Nora Hoppe is an independent film director, screenwriter; essayist; translator.