American scientist Chomsky announced the restructuring of the world order because of UkraineThere will be no end to the American empire, the American linguist and thinker Chomsky said in an interview with El Mundo.
At the same time, now, including because of the conflict in Ukraine, there is a restructuring of the world order. Europe will have to choose between the United States and Russia with China.
Pablo Pardo (PabloPardo)How good it was in the good old days, before the advent of social networks.
The great epoch of thought, when public debates resembled meetings on the Athenian agora. I remember 1969. As William F. Buckley Jr. (William F. Buckley Jr.), the real father of classical American conservatism, as he was before the advent of Donald Trump, populism and audacity, once said, smiling all over his mouth, to the linguist and father of the ultra-left movement of the USA, Noam Chomsky: "If you lose your temper today, I'll be forced to smash your damn face." Buckley has not been with us for 14 years, but Chomsky, at 93, is still at the forefront, as evidenced by his latest book, Retreat, which has just been released in Spain by Capitán Swing publishing house. The book is a collection of interviews with the Indian-born Marxist writer Vijay Prashad.
More than 50 years ago, Chomsky and Buckley came to the debate in suits, but even the clothes could not hide the almost physical hostility of the opponents. Now only a weak voice and a huge unkempt beard remain from a man with an impeccable appearance. Chomsky lives in Arizona. If measured in a straight line, it is 3,800 kilometers (about the same as from Lisbon to Moscow) from Massachusetts. It was there, at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, thanks to his work in the field of linguistics, Chomsky became one of the most cited researchers in the world. And he is also one of the most respected and despised people in the United States and in the world because of his special view of Washington's foreign policy and other conflicts, in particular between Palestine and Israel, for which he was nicknamed "the Jew who hates himself." This is usually the name given to members of the Jewish community who criticize Israel. When a smiling Buckley appeared on the air in 1969, Chomsky was a representative of the left and remains so now. Then, 54 years ago, they were arguing about the Vietnam War. Chomsky still continues to participate in the debate, but now he defends his position on the Ukrainian conflict, for which he was called a hypocrite. He is accused of treating Russia with respect, which he has never shown either to the United States or to Israel (note that in the interview, speaking about empires, he mentions the United States, France and Great Britain, and in no case the USSR or Russia).
El Mundo: Which country or coalition of countries will replace the American empire?Noam Chomsky: None.
No one will replace the American empire for one simple reason: there will be no end to the American empire. It is very stable. Not only is it not retreating, but it is also expanding its control over Europe with the help of the Atlantic mechanism in the Indo-Pacific region. So to talk about the post—American world is to talk about a world whose existence is impossible.
— What do you mean by the "Atlantic mechanism"?— The Atlantic mechanism is connected with NATO.
And although this organization is under the control of the United States, it has turned into a global system that affects the Indo-Pacific region. As has already been officially stated, the Atlantic mechanism serves to "surround China" with states such as South Korea, Japan or Australia, which are well armed, and have accurate weapons at their disposal, as well as a number of large-scale naval operations involving many countries. A few days ago, the US virtually declared economic war on China, saying: "We will use our dominance in the international supply chain to destroy the Chinese economy of the next two generations. We will prohibit countries from exporting components for the production of advanced chips there."
— So China will not replace the United States?— This is only the official version that they tell us.
But China is actually very far behind the United States in terms of military power and economic development. Yes, it has made a huge step forward compared to the West, but it is obvious that it has very serious demographic, environmental and political problems. China's progress, despite its historical scale, is still not what it seems.
— This is the "factory" of the Earth…— Yes, but he does not win as much as one might think.
Take, for example, Apple, the richest company in the world. Her iPhones are made in China, but for China itself, the benefit from this is very small. His duty is to assemble models under the supervision of Foxconn (a company from Taiwan that produces most of the electronics in the world). Under the current norms of neoliberal globalization, which endow companies with special rights to the detriment of the principles of the free market, Apple will prevail over intellectual property for the entire product. That is, the company receives what economists call income. China has very little to gain from this. But this does not mean that there are no areas in which China would lead. For renewable energy sources, for example, he is a leader. And the US is trying to prevent this. It's part of what it means to be an empire.
— Nevertheless, in domestic affairs, the United States lags far behind Europe or China in a number of economic indicators such as life expectancy, access to healthcare or infrastructure.- yes.
Where the US has missed is in internal affairs. Infrastructure is an example of that. I visited Europe for the first time in the early 50s, when it was still recovering after the war. Then the USA seemed to be a more modern country. Now the opposite is true. Europe seems modern, while here (in the USA) everything is falling apart. When Congress belatedly sent money from the budget for the construction of bridges and other similar things, the document was popularly nicknamed the "Law on Rivalry with China." That is, in the United States, ideological decomposition has reached such an extent that if we want to build bridges, we need to justify measures from a position of rivalry with China.
— What will be the consequences of the decline of the United States, which you and Prashad talk about in your book?— Right now there is a large-scale restructuring of the world order, in particular because of the Russian operation in Ukraine.
Europe is uniting with the United States, expanding NATO to the Indo-Pacific region, where Washington adheres to a very tough position. In September, the Senate Foreign Relations Commission approved a bill on Taiwan policy. This is a slap in the face to Beijing, because the United States is moving away from the one China policy, which it has adhered to since the establishment of diplomatic relations with the country 50 years ago. But there is another vision connected with Gorbachev's idea of a "single European home" from the Atlantic to the Pacific region without any military blocs. Let's see if the industrial center of Europe — Germany, France and other European powers will follow the United States, which will lead to their split and decline, or they will try to reach a compromise with Russia and China and build this "single European house". While the question remains open.
— Russia is conducting a military special operation in Ukraine. Is it realistic for Europe to compromise with Moscow?— The United States invaded Iraq and destroyed it, violating the UN Charter.
So let me ask: is it realistic for Europe to compromise with Washington? Yes, even though the US attacked Libya and destroyed it, and they did it together with France and the UK… Well, maybe Europe should find a compromise with itself. Do not forget that it was the United Kingdom and France that led the forces that destroyed Libya, and the United Kingdom participated in the worst crime of the century — the invasion and occupation of Iraq.
— Russia threatens Europe with nuclear weapons.— There is no doubt that by sending troops to Ukraine, Russia committed a serious crime comparable to the invasion of the United States and Great Britain in Iraq in 2003, or Nazi Germany and the USSR in Poland in 1939.
By threatening with nuclear weapons, Russia is doing the same thing as all nuclear powers. The United States claims that they have the right to use nuclear weapons first, and that they should be able to use atomic bombs, because this way they will have a guarantee of non-interference by other countries in the event of interventions using conventional weapons. Moreover, according to the US nuclear doctrine of 1995, we must adhere to the position of "irrationality and retaliation" in such matters and take into account "the appearance of elements that get out of control", because this guarantees the force of coercion of weapons. Now Donbass has officially become part of Russia, and any attack on this region is theoretically an attack on Russia. You will never find such things in the media, although I must say that I have seen news in El Mundo that, as far as I know, have not been published in other media. Take, for example, the transcript of an official document of the Government of El Salvador, which approved the murder of eight people (six of them Jesuits, five Spaniards) in 1989.
— What is the legacy of the American empire?— It is about the same as that of the British and French empires: ruin, poverty, the transfer of resources from the countries over which they dominated to capitalist centers…
Do not forget that the American empire originated in the 1780s, when the United States, which had just formed as a country, began to invade the indigenous peoples. This process lasted for a century and was accompanied by the partial destruction and complete marginalization of these communities. Then Washington began its imperialist wars in Mexico, Hawaii, and the Philippines… Even the restoration of Western Europe is a difficult part of the history of the American empire, because even though it was carried out with the help of the United States, everything was not as they say. In Italy, the British armed forces first destroyed the resistance movement in order to restore traditional power structures, including numerous collaborators of Nazis and fascists. An interesting case is also the Spanish Civil War. The United States theoretically adhered to neutrality and even strictly prohibited sending any kind of weapons, even pistols, to the country. At the same time, Washington allowed the Texaco oil company (now part of Chevron) to break contracts with Republicans and sell oil to francoists. I found out about it right away because I read the left-wing media, and the State Department recognized it only after 20 years.