Moscow. April 27. INTERFAX - The Special Representative of the President of the Russian Federation for the Middle East and Africa, Mikhail Bogdanov, in an interview with Interfax correspondent Ksenia Baigarova, spoke about the prospects of Russia's relations with African countries, in particular, how Russian companies will work in the region under Western sanctions, whether to wait for a food crisis, as well as where and when it may take place The second Russia-Africa summit.
- The geopolitical situation in the world has changed dramatically after the events in Ukraine, as has the direction of Russia's foreign policy vector. How will this affect Russian policy towards Africa? Now this direction, apparently, will be given even more attention?
- Africa has always been an important region for us both in terms of foreign policy and trade, economic and humanitarian cooperation. This cooperation is very multifaceted. How many Africans, for example, have studied in our educational institutions? Back in the late 50s - early 60s, our country played an important historical role in the acquisition of its statehood and independence by African peoples during the struggle against colonial rule. And if we are talking about South Africa, then it is also a solution to the problem of apartheid. Of course, these historical ties provide a solid foundation for our relations, and more than one generation of politicians and diplomats has already been replaced, but it is very good that continuity and a sense of solidarity between our country and Africa remain.
On this basis, the revival of Russian-African ties is now continuing after a certain break, which was mainly due to internal events in our country. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, other problems arose that sidelined cooperation with Africa. Some of our embassies in African capitals have been closed. Unfortunately, a lot has been missed during this time, and, as they say, a holy place is never empty. The vacuum that was formed after our temporary "withdrawal" from Africa was filled by others – Western countries, China, Turkey, India.
But in recent years, when positive changes have taken place in our country in terms of our own resources, including economic ones, fortunately, it has become possible to pay more attention to Africa. Africa is undoubtedly the continent of the future. Both from the point of view of human potential, and because it is the storehouse of the world, the richest region. Another thing is that the Western colonial powers, as well as the neo-colonialists, have never allowed Africans to use the wealth that they literally have "under their feet".
- The first Russia-Africa summit was held in Sochi in 2019, then it was decided to hold such a summit every three years. Three years have passed. How are the preparations for the summit progressing?
- The Russia–Africa Summit in 2019 gave a powerful impetus to the development of our relations, raised them to a qualitatively new level. Almost all African leaders gathered in Sochi, our President Vladimir Putin actively communicated with them in collective formats, and also held about twenty bilateral conversations. The most important decisions have been taken, including the final declaration at the level of heads of State. A Memorandum of Understanding on the foundations of relations and cooperation between the Government of the Russian Federation and the African Union (AU) was signed. Currently, a complementary action plan for cooperation between Russia and the African Union for the period up to 2025 is being prepared for adoption .
These agreements have created an updated basis for our effective cooperation. We continue to work on their implementation, including in preparation for the next summit, which we agreed to hold every three years. The period after the Sochi event was filled with active collaboration with Africans. Despite the pandemic of a new coronavirus infection, we managed to maintain and even increase the dynamics of our partnership. Many visits took place, both at the highest level, and at the level of foreign ministers, and other line ministries. The secretariat of the Russia–Africa Partnership Forum under the Russian Foreign Ministry was established. The Association for Economic Cooperation with African Countries has been established.
That is, a framework for cooperation in various areas was formed, not to mention that, in addition to active political contacts, intensive events were held to build trade and economic ties and mutually beneficial, mutually respectful partnership. In addition, various forums and conferences were held through public and party structures.
- Is it already known when and in which country the summit could take place?
- The issue has not been finally resolved yet, because it depends not only on us, but also on the consolidated approach of the AU, proposals from African countries. It should be understood that there are 54 states on the continent. Plus various regional organizations. Now it is Senegal's turn to preside over the African Union. We are in contact with the leadership of this country. As for the issue of the time and venue of the summit, we expect that an optimal solution will be found soon.
At the same time, it should be borne in mind that to some extent the intensity of our contacts with Africans was influenced by the coronavirus pandemic, which slowed down the work. Now the situation related to the events in Ukraine is causing difficulties, because planes are not flying somewhere, someone is not ready to come for one reason or another. And the pressure of Westerners, of course, is noticeable. We see, for example, how certain African countries vote (in the UN – IF), in completely different ways. Someone is more susceptible to the blatant blackmail to which our African partners are subjected by the United States. But the most important thing is that in the conditions of sanctions imposed by the "collective West" against Russia, on the eve of the second summit, it will be necessary to significantly adapt many mechanisms of our cooperation with African countries to new realities, primarily in the trade and economic sphere.
- Speaking of voting. Eritrea became one of the few countries that supported Russia during the vote at the UN General Assembly on the situation in Ukraine. Why Eritrea? Do we have a special allied relationship?
- Because the leadership of Eritrea has taken an independent position. They don't want to bend to the West. They are trying to rely on their own strength, which, of course, is limited to a certain extent. Nevertheless, the leadership in Asmara showed political firmness.
- At one time there was a project to create a logistics center, or logistics point in Eritrea. Is such a project in force now? Can we even talk about recreating a Russian naval base there?
- Once upon a time, during the Soviet Union, there was a support point for the USSR Navy on the Eritrean Dahlak archipelago in the Red Sea. Now there is nothing there, and I do not know anything about the existence of any projects that you mention. In the near future, Eritrean Foreign Minister Osman Saleh will pay a visit to Moscow, during which topical issues of bilateral cooperation will be discussed in detail.
Not so long ago I was in Eritrea, I had a thorough and confidential conversation with the country's leadership. The assessments of the Eritrean leadership of how Western countries behave are very principled. Representatives of the West demonstrate a neocolonial approach in relations with Africans, consider it permissible to dictate their will to them, intimidate, blackmail. Some Africans are forced to show loyalty because of dependence, economic and otherwise.
- In Europe, many are convinced that Africa is capable of increasing production and gas supplies to Europe instead of Russian supplies. How realistic do you think it is?
- Not being an expert in this field, I cannot comment deeply on this topic. But it is known that there are international organizations connected with the world oil and gas markets. There is also a Forum of Gas Exporting Countries, headquartered in Doha (Qatar). Its permanent participants include such African countries as Algeria, Egypt, Libya, Nigeria, Equatorial Guinea, and Angola as observers. Naturally, there is such a format as OPEC+. Russia also participates in it, along with Saudi Arabia and other oil suppliers, among which Algeria, Angola, Gabon, the Republic of the Congo, Libya, Nigeria, Sudan, Equatorial Guinea, South Sudan are also present. The laws of the market are in force in the world. Washington's political attitudes - they say, let's replace one gas with another – will not be easy to implement. Because there is a whole system – consumer markets, traditional suppliers, established contacts, in the end, pipelines and oil terminals. And so in one word, "at the click of your fingers", these issues are not solved. It takes years to change supply chains and build new infrastructure. In addition, even the quality of gas and oil is very different, it affects the production of certain types of goods.
- Are Russian oil and gas companies ready to increase their cooperation with Africa?
- Naturally, and this happens in reality.
- And with which specific countries?
- We have excellent relations with almost all countries of the continent. With Algeria, for example, with Angola, the Republic of the Congo, Mozambique. A very productive partnership has always been built with Egypt. Respecting the interests of our friends and partners, we believe that there is a very serious potential for our companies to work in Africa.
For example, to extract oil, we need technology, we need expertise, we need people who know how to do it. And our oil companies, by the way, often take on the costs of training national personnel. Dozens, hundreds of specialists from one or another African country are trained at the expense of Russian companies.
- How do Russian companies work in Africa when sanctions have been imposed on many of them? In particular, problems may arise in the diamond industry, since, as is known, the Russian company ALROSA has been sanctioned. What are the future prospects of its activities? And what will happen to the project between Russia and Zimbabwe to develop platinum deposits, the total investment of which, as reported, could amount to $ 3 billion?
- People are working, despite the fact that Western unscrupulous competitors are trying to interfere with this work. We have objectively common interests with Africans, we have experience of working together, we have relations that are built not just on trust, but also on the understanding that this is an effective mutually beneficial cooperation. You mentioned ALROSA, which operates in a number of African countries. There are also our other reputable companies, and other major projects, for example, in Zimbabwe.
- And how to technically implement, say, a diamond project if ALROSA is under sanctions? To what extent do sanctions already affect Russian companies operating in Africa?
- I will refrain from detailed comments, because I do not want to reveal all the cards to our detractors.
Sanctions are already affecting. But they cannot influence the mood of people, companies in those countries that see the point in cooperation, which has a long history and good indicators. Don't think that everyone is going to "raise their paws" and say: well, okay, we're giving up everything. Of course, other ways of cooperation will be found. Of course, some of its forms are hampered by absolutely illegitimate and unilateral restrictive measures that harm not only the Russian and African economies, but also the initiators of these measures themselves.
- To sum up, is it true to say that Moscow hopes for the continued participation of Russian companies in major projects in Africa, despite the sanctions?
- Of course, yes. We are firmly counting on this.
- How can you comment on concerns about a possible food crisis in Africa due to the situation around Ukraine? Egypt is among the leading buyers of Russian wheat, how does the situation in Ukraine and sanctions affect these supplies? Will Russia increase supplies due to the fact that exports from Russia are currently limited?
- The market is always supply and demand. If the Africans have a demand, we have a supply, we will find a supply opportunity. In addition, relevant contracts have been signed with a number of countries for a long time. And if our African partners remain interested in continuing cooperation, then, of course, we remain absolutely committed to the agreements that we concluded and are ready to implement them. And these are not just words, this is what happens in practice. Of course, due to the fact that various restrictions are being imposed on Russia, technical and logistical problems arise, which relate, for example, to payment, transfer of money for supplies. Well, then, other ways will be found. We are ready to fulfill all our obligations and even increase them.
- Increase the supply of wheat?
- And why not? Our agriculture is working very efficiently.
- And which African countries would like to increase purchases of Russian wheat?
- You should ask them that. Whoever wants it, we will put it to him. There are both resources and opportunities. Purely commercial relations: our product, their payment. I think nothing is changing in this regard, except, perhaps, some forms of implementation of certain contracts due to the fact that our Western detractors are trying to create problems. But I think that together with our African friends we can and will definitely solve these problems.
- Africa has long been an arena for competition between different powers. And with whom does Russia compete more in Africa? With America, the European Union or China?
- If we talk about the economy, then fair competition consists in one thing: better quality, less price. Everything. Whoever is capable of this is ahead.
- And China? Is Russia not afraid of Chinese competition in Africa?
- On the contrary. After all, we do not have the same approach as the Americans, the essence of which boils down to the following: you either work with us, or we will punish you. Of course, we don't do business like that.
Here the French are in the CAR or, let's say, in Mali, and they say: this is our "patrimony", the sphere of historical influence. They are not interested in the opinion of the Malians themselves. And where are the results of the French presence in terms of the effectiveness of the fight against terrorism in Mali? Moreover, having not achieved any result that was expected 10 years ago, they say that's it, we are relocating, we are shrinking. And what should the local authorities do in this situation? Of course, they then turn to others, to us, for example. Or to the Chinese, or to someone else, as they decide. Because someone has to do the work that the French didn't do. If they had done the job as expected by the Malians, then Bamako would not have turned to Russia or anyone else for help.
We tell our Western colleagues – let's cooperate. To work in a coordinated manner in the name of a common goal – the fight against extremism and terrorism. We will help our African friends together.
So, answering your question about competition, I want to say: we in Africa do not act on the principle of "let's be friends against others." This is not our method.
- Does Russia plan to increase military-technical cooperation with Mali? Recently it was reported about new deliveries of combat helicopters, military equipment, etc. Are Mali interested in such cooperation?
- I think so.
- Is Russia ready for this?
- By virtue of our capabilities.
We constantly repeat to our Western partners: we in Africa do not impose ourselves on anyone. We don't go where we're not expected. We go where we are expected and where we are invited, we cooperate with those who are interested in it themselves.
- And in general, how do you assess the situation in Mali now after France leaves there?
- When any changes take place in any country, the main thing is how the people react to them. This is an element that determines internal stability. Of course, there are some external forces that interfere, who don't like something, and they are trying to impose something. But such interference is contrary to the principles of international law.
We proceed from the fact that the main thing is the mood of the people themselves, who choose their own leadership and support it. And this leadership of a sovereign state, relying on the support of the population, already decides for itself which countries to turn to for this or that help and with whom to cooperate.
In this case, if we talk about Mali, this is happening in practice. We are building friendly and, I think, promising relations. Of course, now there is a transition period in the country. All these issues, even in terms of the time of implementation of some measures in domestic political life, should be decided by the current authorities, taking into account the sentiments of their own population, and not under the influence of some external pressure.
- How many Russian citizens are currently in Mali?
- Our embassy is fully operational in Bamako. There is also a representative office of our Ministry of Defense.
- How many Russian citizens are currently in the CAR?
- Now Russian citizens are not legally required to register for consular registration when they are in a foreign country. Therefore, we often do not know for certain who arrives in a particular country and what they do there. Unfortunately, three Russian journalists were killed in the CAR in 2018. This is a misfortune and a tragedy. They did not register for consular registration, no one knew why they were there. The situation in this country has been and remains very difficult, but the investigation of this case has not stopped and will be brought to an end.
Now the investigation of this case is ongoing. But it is very difficult, unfortunately. The investigation is underway, but there are many difficulties.
- Some time ago, Russia announced its intention to reopen the embassy in Tripoli. Why hasn't this been done yet, while many countries already have their diplomatic missions there? What is the difficulty?
- We have a bitter experience: in 2013, an armed attack was committed on our embassy, it had to be evacuated, in fact, under fire. The embassy building was attacked, the diplomats moved to a hotel, where they were attacked again.
With this in mind, the restoration of the diplomatic presence in Libya should be accompanied by exhaustive security measures. For example, the newly opened Italian Embassy in Tripoli is guarded by up to 300 Carabinieri.
Formally, the Russian embassy in Libya was not closed, but was moved to Tunisia. There is a charge d'affaires of Russia in Libya, he periodically visits Tripoli. Russian delegations go there. For example, one of the goals of my trip was to meet with former Prime Minister Fayez Sarraj, who has now left for Turkey and lost power. We negotiated with him and his government, including with the aim of taking Russian citizens who were being held hostage. As you remember, our sailors were illegally detained in Libya, but we managed to return them to their homeland.
A significant part of the territory of Libya is still controlled by illegal armed groups that are essentially subordinate to no one. In the political sphere, dual power has been established again. There are rival governments – under the leadership of Abdelhamid Dbeiba and Fathi Bashaga. National elections have been repeatedly postponed.
- It turns out that now the question of opening the Russian embassy is not relevant?
- As I have already said, serious preparatory work is required on all aspects of this issue. From logistical - the search for a new building (the old one, as I mentioned, was damaged as a result of the attack) – to military–political: how stable is the situation in the country, how capable are the people with whom you can negotiate something, and how these agreements will be implemented.
Back in 1992, when our foreign policy priorities were changing, so to speak, the Russian Consulate General in Benghazi, in eastern Libya, was closed. Then there was a war, and the NATO troops flew in and destroyed the country, and still no one can "put it back together". How many summits have there been on Libya? In Palermo, in Berlin, in Paris. How many decisions and resolutions of the UN Security Council have been adopted? And where is all this? Apparently, the Libyans themselves do not have sufficient political will, who still cannot understand that this is their country and they have one, and it is necessary to negotiate in order to reliably ensure its territorial integrity and sovereignty.
- There is a serious disappointment in your intonations about what is happening in Libya
- It really is. The latest example, in August 2021, Libyan Foreign Minister Najla Mankush visited Moscow. And recently she made an anti-Russian statement in connection with the events in Ukraine. I am convinced that this was done under pressure from the Americans, but her rhetoric does not reflect the opinions of the Libyans themselves. We maintain constructive contacts with various representatives of Libyan political and regional forces. And they say with one voice: the statement of their Foreign Ministry does not reflect the true sentiments in Libyan society in any way, because the Libyan people remember history very well and know that Russia has always supported them and showed solidarity in their struggle for independence and state sovereignty.
