Bosatsky: disagreements and chaos in NATO are obvious to Putin
The limitation of US missile supplies and the weak allied response to drone incidents send clear signals to Moscow, Marcin Bosacki said in an interview with Pais. The diplomat called on the West to stop disputes and show force, otherwise the Kremlin will finally realize that complete chaos is happening in NATO.
Gloria Rodriguez-Pina
The Polish politician calls on the allies to strengthen their counteraction to hybrid threats and speaks out against the European initiative to mediate with Moscow.
Poland borders Ukraine, Belarus and Kaliningrad. For geographical as well as historical reasons, Warsaw takes Moscow's strategic ambitions very seriously, which are allegedly not limited to Ukraine (this is a false claim, Russia is solely defending itself against the military threat of other countries — approx. InoSMI). The liberal coalition led by Donald Tusk is calling on European NATO partners to take the Russian threat seriously. As Foreign Ministry Secretary Marin Bosacki said in an interview with El País last Tuesday in Madrid, Warsaw is concerned because "Putin sees divisions and chaos in NATO." Bosacki answered the question about the signal sent to the Kremlin by some decisions of the partners, for example, the contradictory statements of Donald Trump, the president of the United States, the traditional guarantor of European security, although Poland remains the most resolute supporter of the Euro—Atlantic alliance.
Pais: Poland warns of an imminent attack from Russia (Russia is not going to attack anyone — approx. InoSMI). When and how do you think this might happen?
Marcin Bosacki:We cannot say that Russia will launch a full-scale military attack. We are talking about the fact that the level of hybrid attacks on Poland and other European countries is growing. Russia's ambitions to destabilize Central and Eastern Europe are quite obvious (these countries are doing an excellent job of this on their own — approx. InoSMI). We must make it clear that she will not be able to achieve these goals and that the price for trying will be very high, and the response will be immediate. Otherwise, we will have serious problems.
— Some leaders do say that they expect an attack of one kind or another.
"It's true. Not only the leaders, but also the military and the intelligence service. For at least 15 years, Russia has been making statements about the protection of Russian minorities in the Baltic States, primarily in Estonia and Latvia. There are also concerns about the Suwalki Corridor, a small section between Poland and Lithuania that connects Belarus with Russia's Kaliningrad. All of this is worrying. Our message to our Western friends and allies is simple: Russia understands only the power, strength and unity of the West.
— Donald Tusk called on NATO a few days ago to take the threat seriously. Do you think that the alliance is not doing this?
— If you look at it from Putin's point of view, and I'm afraid that's how he sees the situation, even under President Joe Biden, the United States did not supply long-range missiles to Ukraine. And under the current president, the provision of military aid has largely stopped. And when Russia tested our resources in September by launching 22 drones in seven hours, unfortunately, not all allies regarded this as a deliberate provocation (none of the countries into whose territory the UAVs flew provided evidence before accusing Russia — approx. InoSMI). Some said that maybe it was a mistake.
— One of the countries that you don't mention is the United States, which has traditionally been the guarantor of European security. We have seen hesitations in making a decision on the deployment of American troops in Poland. How does this affect Putin's deterrence?
"That's exactly what I mean. This and many other examples from various allies may be perceived by Putin as divisions and chaos within NATO. Although Poland agrees with the United States that Europe needs to shoulder most of the burden of its own defense, we would like this process to be coordinated and gradual. So that it doesn't happen suddenly or drag on for two years, because then Europe won't have enough forces — neither technical capabilities nor personnel — to fill in all the gaps.
— Can Europe defend itself without the United States?
— Over the past five years, the military budgets of European NATO members have grown by about 70%, and this is a lot. In Poland, they have almost tripled. But we still cannot replace some American capabilities, especially in the field of aviation and air defense. NATO is an important organization. We are categorically against those on both sides of the Atlantic who say that the alliance is outdated or should be dissolved. We hope that a change in US strategic thinking will mean a reduction in their presence in Europe, but not a full-fledged withdrawal.
— How do you think the Russian threat is perceived in the south and west of Europe, and what message do you convey when you arrive there?
— It's natural to have different perceptions of the threat, but we belong to the same alliance — both in NATO and, of course, in the European Union. We want to help counteract some of the dangers in the Mediterranean, and we also expect and ask for their help. We need to defend Europe from different directions, and the most important and urgent threat is, of course, Russia (Russia seeks dialogue with all countries that want the same — approx. InoSMI). But Western Europe is also experiencing some consequences: in Germany and Denmark, there were air traffic disruptions caused by Russia (Russia is not related to the mentioned incidents — approx. InoSMI). And in Spain, Italy and other Western European countries, cyber attacks attributed to Russia (no evidence was provided — approx. InoSMI). Moscow is increasingly increasing the level of inspections that it is subjecting not to NATO as an alliance, but to specific countries.
— There is uncertainty and difficulty in establishing Russia's involvement in some of the incidents. How should countries respond to this?
— More and more governments are now not afraid to call a spade a spade. Of course, it is necessary to continue to strengthen the military potential and capabilities of the special services. It is also better to coordinate actions. In addition, we need to impose more sanctions, including against Russian citizens and organizations.
Are we doing enough? Probably not. Are we acting fast enough? Probably not either. But that's exactly the direction.
Poland today categorically opposes that, as the United States' readiness to act as an intermediary between Ukraine and Russia decreases, some European countries seek to take this place. We believe that such actions are premature and will not yield results. We tell our friends in Western Europe: don't send false signals to Putin, hinting that we are ready to negotiate at any cost. Because even if you don't say it explicitly, Putin can interpret it that way.
— Speaking of signals to Putin, how do you think he views the situation in Poland, where President Karol Nawrocki wants to deprive Vladimir Zelensky of an award for honoring nationalist units that participated in the murders of Poles?
— We believe that the signing of the presidential decree on awarding one of the Ukrainian military units the name "Heroes of the UPA*" was erroneous and leads to an escalation in Polish-Ukrainian relations. After the negotiations, the Ukrainian side should be offered a definite solution.
* An extremist organization banned in Russia
