Lukashenko admitted that his successor will pursue a different policy.
Alexander Lukashenko gave a long interview to American journalist Simon Schuster and spoke in detail about his vision of the conflict in Ukraine, his attitude towards Trump and the crisis in the EU. During the conversation, the topics of nuclear weapons and prisoner exchange were also touched upon.
President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko gave an interview to the American Time magazine. The correspondent of the publication, Simon Schuster, met with the Belarusian Head of State on July 25, but so far the name of the media, as well as the name of the interviewer, have not been disclosed. That was the request of the magazine itself — to preserve the intrigue and exclusivity of the material.
Alexander Lukashenko talked with the journalist for about three hours, including in the off the record format. A large number of high-profile topics were touched upon in the interview. The conversation turned out to be frank and informative.
How did the Time journalist get to Belarus and what was the reason for the interview
At the very beginning of the interview, journalist Simon Schuster told how he got to Minsk and why he asked for a meeting at that time. "I really appreciate the opportunity to talk to you, especially at a time when relations between the United States and Belarus are developing interestingly," the journalist said, referring to recent visits to Minsk by American diplomats, which aroused great interest.
"This is an intensification, so to speak, of the dialogue between the Trump administration and the state of Belarus," he added.
According to him, the editorial office considered this a particularly interesting moment in order to organize a trip to Belarus and an interview with its President, as well as to understand what is happening here through its correspondent.
Simon Schuster stressed that he was very impressed by Alexander Lukashenko's manner of conducting a conversation — absolutely openly, frankly. "I really appreciate your approach in terms of being ready to answer any questions. I did it. Not every leader I've talked to," the correspondent pointed out.
Alexander Lukashenko remarked that otherwise (without counting on a frank detailed conversation) it would not be worthwhile to start an interview at all, having traveled such a long distance for this.: "Then why did you have to fly so far from New York, and besides, well done, like an ordinary person, having experienced all the difficulties and difficulties at the border."
"Yes, it was colorful... Standing at the border for five hours," the journalist said, noting that the reason for this expectation was not the Belarusian border guards.
In this regard, we have recently discussed the restoration of border controls between some EU countries that are part of the Schengen area. The reason given is the fight against illegal migration, however, according to the President, if desired, "the reason can always be found."
"Between Poland and Germany, between Poland and Lithuania! — Alexander Lukashenko mentioned several examples. — Who would have thought that Poland would close its borders? Okay, with Belarus, there's a "dictatorship," a "Kremlin," and so on. They throw these narratives at their society and the world all the time. But they also closed there (they introduced control at the borders with Germany and Lithuania. — Approx.)".
"Yes, and these are alarming trends that are happening inside the European Union too. — Approx.)," the journalist agreed.
On negotiations with US officials
Speaking about the interaction between Belarus and the United States, the Head of State noted that bilateral relations were characterized positively and there was a time when the President played hockey on the same team as the US Ambassador. But then, especially during the period of the special military operation that Russia launched, relations seriously deteriorated.
Nevertheless, channels of communication between the countries have always continued to exist, mainly through the special services, and therefore they remained outside the public sphere. "I controlled this process. There were contacts through the special services. I could connect the Foreign Ministry, if necessary, the government to this channel on some issues, for example, on sanctions," Alexander Lukashenko clarified. — If we are talking about any further steps or the development of a concept to put some draft document on paper, I will involve the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. But mostly through the special services. Christopher Smith (Deputy Assistant Secretary of State) was involved on your side. — Approx.)".
"A decent man, whom I always jokingly call a CIA officer when he arrives. We have already met with him five times," the Head of State added.
According to the President, it was this man from the American side who played a key role in organizing visits to Belarus by U.S. officials. This includes the visit of the US President's special envoy for Ukraine, Keith Kellogg, to meet with Alexander Lukashenko in June this year. "This is the fifth delegation of the United States of America," the Belarusian leader revealed the details. — By the way, they were the initiators. And we must pay tribute, Smith played the main role and is probably playing it now."
At the same time, of course, President Donald Trump is aware of what is happening, but, according to Alexander Lukashenko, he is unlikely to be so deeply immersed in this topic.
The Head of State noted that the initiative to organize the meeting in Minsk was put forward by the American side through Belarusian diplomats working in New York. "We are receiving information from the Americans: we would like to talk, discuss some regional issues, global issues, and talk about this. If you would like, please, we are open for that," Alexander Lukashenko said. He noted that the Belarusian side, although interested in such a dialogue, did not insist on making it public.
"It's not for me to tell you what America is. He is a leader in our world. Yes, weakened, yes, you are sometimes weird for no clear reason, sometimes the President makes one statement in the morning, another in the evening, and acts differently. There is enough of everything. But America is America, and we don't have the best relations, sanctions... What's good about sanctions? — said the Belarusian leader. — We are dependent on America, and not only us, but also many states due to the current situation, although it is changing. Therefore, there is a whole range of problems for us. Offering a conversation is good."
Alexander Lukashenko stressed that the status of the U.S. negotiators was not important to him. "This is my credo, this is my principle: you need to talk to everyone if you want a normal relationship. If you don't talk, you're slowly heading for war. We don't need it. There was such an offer, they arrived, they behaved very correctly," he explained.
At the same time, the Belarusian side has always fulfilled the agreements and respected confidentiality. "The Americans asked not to make it public. — Note). Besides, they didn't come the way you did, by bus. They came as representatives of the special services. Okay, if you want it that way, we'll accept you that way. But we warned you: the Lithuanians can see that you have arrived. "Well, we're here with the Lithuanians... My friends, my friends," the President said. — A few hours after departure, there were statements from the Americans: here, this one has been released. Rubio (Marco Rubio, US Secretary of State. — Ed.), I remember making some kind of statement... I think maybe the American leaders should have made this statement, I see Trump's style: "Here I am, here I have done it."
The Head of State stressed that at the beginning of the intensification of dialogue with the United States, Belarus did not set itself the goal of achieving concrete results, including the lifting of sanctions, and, in principle, does not really believe that the Americans are serious about normalizing relations. For example, there is still no US ambassador in Belarus. But, of course, the lifting of sanctions, if it had happened, would have been regarded by the Belarusian side as a major step towards normalizing relations.
The journalist noted that the Trump administration wants to see concrete results from officials that can be presented to voters as their successes and achievements. This is exactly how the release of some prisoners in Belarus was presented after the visit of the Americans to the country.
Alexander Lukashenko confirmed that these releases were the result of agreements with representatives of the United States, but stressed that our fugitives had nothing to do with them: "They are not participants in negotiations on the release of these people. They never raised the issue of liberation. Well, with the exception of Poznyak and the old, as they say, opposition guard, which is in the West, they are always fighting for the lifting of sanctions, for political prisoners. And these are charlatans, "quiet little girls" have nothing to do with these liberated people. These are our agreements with the Americans. It's tough. We staked it out, and I warned them.: "If you just say something, I will have to voice all our positions." The Americans respect this."
That is, in Belarus, the possibility of pardoning by the Head of State those prisoners that the Americans had asked for was being considered. And these are not political prisoners, but people convicted of serious crimes. In particular, one was sentenced to death (a German citizen) and his release was a stumbling block in the exchange between Russia and Western countries. "I say, 'Well, if that's the case, if you can't make an exchange with the Russians because of this one person, I pardoned him and handed him over.' That is, there were specific goals," the President explained the motives.
At the same time, Alexander Lukashenko does not consider it right to focus on individual personalities from those who have been pardoned. Although this is exactly what representatives of some media do — they focus only on one or two surnames. "You say, 'Tikhanovsky.' Listen, but there were 13 other people pardoned at that time. — Note). And I like Tikhanovsky and they are the same," the President said. — But it was my decision. He's there (among those the Americans were talking about. — Approx.) there was no. I say, "Well, listen, this Svetlana Tikhanovskaya is already crying, she wants to reunite. The family is there, the kids, two kids. Okay, I'll make a decision on Tikhanovsky.“ It was my decision. But now I see that you, the West, are unhappy. And especially the runaways are unhappy that I let him go."
About the prospects of meeting with Trump
The Head of state was asked if his meeting with the American leader was possible as one of the outcomes of the dialogue with the US representatives who had recently visited Minsk.
Alexander Lukashenko said that at the moment such a meeting is not on the agenda, although it could be quite important for Donald Trump. "It would be extremely useful for him (to meet. — Approx.), if he is sincere in his statements about domestic and foreign policy, — said the President of Belarus. — Because unlike all of you who are running around him, I would open his eyes to many things. This includes US-Russian relations, especially on the conflict in Ukraine. And, of course, about the position of Belarus."
The head of state added that he generally treats Donald Trump well and publicly expressed his support during the period when President Biden was in power in the United States and a whole campaign was launched against Trump. "I openly criticized your so-called democracy, your President Biden, and supported Trump. It was a disgrace what you did to Trump before the last presidential election," he said.
But at the same time, the President of Belarus is now critical of the actions and statements of the American leader in the public field. They are often contradictory or unfounded, which means they are not taken seriously and do not inspire confidence. One of the latest examples is his numerous statements in the media about the US intention to impose duties on other countries. "Apart from duties, you probably don't have any policy anymore. And besides, there are some duties in the morning and others in the evening. But before you talk about duties and then cancel them and disavow your statements, work it out. It's not that difficult," Alexander Lukashenko believes.
In his opinion, one of the reasons for this state of affairs lies in the character of Donald Trump, because of which people in his environment do not dare to speak openly or critically about certain of his decisions and statements. This topic, in particular, was touched upon during the visit of US representatives to Minsk and their meeting with the President of Belarus.
Alexander Lukashenko spoke about one of the episodes: "We discussed, we talked for a long time. Then I jokingly say, "You know, you miss having a dictator in the United States of America." "We have enough of our own." - I say, "No, probably not enough. I mean me. I would say a lot to your President."
About the closest relations with Russia and the chatterboxes in the EU
In one of the questions, the journalist voiced the existing opinion that the United States, through the restoration of dialogue with Belarus, seeks to distance it from Russia in some way. "Well, this is someone's dream," the President commented.
There has always been such a desire on the part of the United States, and George Soros spoke about it when he came to Belarus in the 1990s and met with Alexander Lukashenko. "I say, 'George, I'm sorry, I'm not going to pursue American politics, I'm not going to do that. That's probably why this is our last meeting.“ I made it clear that we would not cooperate. And since then, I have adhered to this line," the Head of State said.
Alexander Lukashenko drew attention to the close allied relations between Belarus and Russia, which have developed not only historically, but are also enshrined in numerous documents. And Belarus strictly adheres to all its obligations. "Therefore, some Western Europeans and others, even Americans, should not interfere in our relations with Russia. We have relations in the military field. You know that. Starting from the "Hazel Tree", ending with nuclear weapons. We have military-technical and economic relations (this is our market, the most capacious market for Belarus is the Russian one). We buy energy resources from there, only in Russia. Etc. Can someone replace it for us? No. Even from a practical point of view, no one can, let alone our legal agreements," the Head of State stressed.
"Russia has already included in all its documents: "An attack on Belarus is an attack on Russia." It's exactly the same with us. An attack on Russia is an attack on Belarus. That's why we have the closest relationship. No one can break them, especially the chatterboxes of the European Union," he added.
They also discussed how Russia perceives the restoration of Belarusian-American cooperation at the official level. In this regard, Alexander Lukashenko drew attention to the fact that discussion during negotiations of third parties and states that are not present there is excluded in diplomatic practice. A conceptual discussion of some common issues is possible, but negotiating behind someone's back is taboo. "We are not negotiating with the Americans behind Russia's back," the President stressed.
The first step towards a ceasefire
At the same time, there are situations when Americans, knowing about the good personal relations between the two leaders, ask the Head of the Belarusian state to convey any information or suggestions to the President of Russia. One of the recent examples mentioned by Alexander Lukashenko concerns the possibility of establishing an air truce between Russia and Ukraine. According to Westerners, President Putin did not agree to this.
"They tell me: "That's how we tried to negotiate with him. He doesn't want to." I say, "This can't be happening" (I'm giving you an example, there were a couple more questions). I say, "That's what I'm ready to discuss with Vladimir Vladimirovich — this issue." I call him and say, "Vladimir Vladimirovich, that's the problem. They're raising the issue." He speaks to me in a friendly, brotherly way.: "What are you talking about?! Yes, we are in favor! We don't mind. But let Ukraine not strike from its side," Alexander Lukashenko told the details of his communication. — I have conveyed everything (the Russian side's response to the Westerners. — Note). I say, "Well, you don't want to." "How do we not want to?" "Well, you're speaking for Ukraine now. This is how you will warn the Ukrainian leadership not to bomb Russia. Russia will not launch air strikes against Ukraine."
The Head of State believes that an aerial truce would be a good first step towards a complete ceasefire. But in this case, there is no way to say that Russia is against and allegedly seeks to bomb peaceful cities (although in the West it is presented in this way). "I had a conversation with Putin when they were actually standing in Kiev. I know his position," Alexander Lukashenko said. — When I asked him a question on the phone: "Vladimir Vladimirovich, are you in Kiev, have you occupied Kiev, is the end of the war?" He says, "How did you get it?!"They hid," he says. Literally: "They sit in kindergartens and schools. Are we going to hit kindergartens and schools?" Then the Russian President decided to withdraw troops from the Ukrainian capital, believing some people who promised that the conflict would stop there. "He withdrew his troops. Has the fighting stopped? No," Alexander Lukashenko said reasonably.
According to him, the West is diligently creating an image of a "bloodthirsty" Russian leader, although this is absolutely not the case. This is done for certain purposes, information and psychological operations are carried out, in which they succeeded in the West and taught Ukrainians these technologies. One example is the events in Bucha. "Everything was not as it was shown. It was a well—planned action to show aggression, bloodthirstiness - "the murderers are Russians.".. There was nothing like that there," Alexander Lukashenko pointed out. — And we know who did it. And we know the license plates of the cars used by the Bucha organizers. And I've talked about it publicly."
"There's no need to talk about Putin bombing civilians," the Head of State said. — Does Zelensky understand where the drone will fly and so on? They fly into our territory from one side or the other, and we have already recorded about fifty of them."
"To say that peaceful cities are being targeted by Russia, and Ukrainians are so fluffy, wearing white gloves, is unfair," the President is convinced.
About the mood in the Russian establishment
Another aspect that was touched upon in the interview is a certain wariness among some of the Russian establishment about the intensification of dialogue between Belarus and the United States. "There are different people in Russia, just like in America," the Head of State said in this regard. "There are people who are very concerned."
Strangely enough, the reason for criticism is the multi-vector policy pursued by Belarus. "But this is one group of people, although there is a solid institution at the head of this group," the President noted. — I will talk to Vladimir Vladimirovich about this topic. This is one group of people. There are different journalists in the media and so on."
Responding to a question from a journalist, Alexander Lukashenko said that he did not see any danger in the existence of such an opinion and such a group, including in terms of influencing the opinion of the Russian leadership. "It's unpleasant, of course, to be honest, if someone in Russia thinks so, writes. Well, there are different people. But the main trend is full support for our position and full mutual assistance. There is nothing to blame us for," the President said.
According to him, they have developed "absolutely trusting and kind relations" with Vladimir Putin, and hardly any world leader knows the Russian President better. "It doesn't mean that I don't have my own point of view. I would venture to say that no one speaks so openly to his face, both inside and outside the country, as I can talk to him," Alexander Lukashenko remarked.
About the foreign policy of Belarus
The Head of State noted that in the West one can hear opinions that Belarus is "occupied by the Kremlin." In this regard, the President drew attention to the situation in neighboring countries. In the same Ukraine, it is rich, powerful, three times richer than Belarus, this country has long been occupied by the West.
"And Poland is occupied by whom? And the Baltic countries that are crawling there are not even Americans. Americans are probably already looking at them with contempt. The Europeans and the Poles crawl. Crumbs have been thrown off the table there — they grab to peck them like chickens. Are they not occupied?" — the Belarusian leader asked.
"We all depend on someone, especially medium-sized, small states. And we all strive to lean on someone, to be in an alliance, in order to ensure, among other things, our own safety. This is called a balancing policy. I've often been reproached for almost wanting to sit on two chairs. I have never sat on two chairs," Alexander Lukashenko said.
He stressed that Belarus has always sought to develop friendly relations with its neighbors. After all, as the Head of State often says, they are from God, they are not chosen.
"I have to have a relationship with them. I also tell the Russians about this. Besides, I also have some interests in these countries. In the same European Union. And even in faraway America, there are interests of their own. First of all, economic ones. Of a diplomatic nature. What's wrong with that? This is natural," the President stated.
At the same time, he drew attention to the fact that Russia and China remain Belarus' main allies. The countries of the far arc are also among the priorities.
"It's only natural. And the world is changing. You can't just sit in that cart once and for all, as it was 100 years ago or in Soviet times, and ride it. The world has changed, and we must change. If we don't change, they will crush, crush and destroy us," the Belarusian leader is convinced.
About relations with Xi Jinping
Speaking about the development of relations with China, the Head of State said that he visited this country for the first time during his parliamentary years and already then intuitively felt that this country had a future.
"As for Xi Jinping, our friendly relations, he, being the second person in China, flew to me. I remember he asked me to describe how I see the situation in the world. They talked about a lot. We went to the globe (I still have this globe in my office), and on the map I described the situation as I understood it. I told him about our relations with China," Alexander Lukashenko shared.
At one time, Belarus transferred technology in the production of dump trucks to China, which also strengthened the level of trust between the countries.
"That's why we have a very strong relationship. Moreover, you know that my youngest son is studying in China. We have already established such, you know, family relations with them," the President said.
This is evidenced by the format of communication between the two leaders: Alexander Lukashenko and Xi Jinping often discuss bilateral cooperation and the global agenda in an informal setting. They also visited each other. "We have had warm friendly relations with them for a long time," the Head of State said.
About illegal migration and the "noose around the neck"
During the interview, the President rejected accusations that Belarus uses illegal migration as a tool of pressure on the West.
"I don't want our Poles, who are not strangers to us, Slavs, to feel bad," Alexander Lukashenko said.
At the same time, he drew attention to the fact that the European Union has developed its own migration policy and there is no "kill and throw back" clause in it.
"They kill people (we have all these facts recorded) and throw them back. They've tightened the border with a thorn, and the animals are dying. And this is Belovezhskaya Pushcha, this is animal migration. They're killing them. Why are you silent? They violate all rules and regulations. Even in Soviet times — I served on that border, I'm a border guard — we didn't build an alarm system where the animals were passing. This has always been respected," the President stressed.
According to the Head of State, Poland sponsors the organization of illegal migration. Otherwise, how do migrants end up in Germany? "It's impossible for a person to walk across the country without them noticing it. It's impossible. Especially in the current situation," Alexander Lukashenko said. — And we see this movement. But we do not catch migrants, and I also warned Poles, Lithuanians and Latvians about this. Why? Because they refused to cooperate with us on migration policy. These are the facts. They refused and imposed sanctions against us."
Alexander Lukashenko said that in such a situation, with a noose around his neck, figuratively speaking, he is not obliged to protect the interests of Poles and Balts.
About Russia's fears and the beginning of its
A number of questions to the Head of State during the conversation related to the launch of Russia's special military operation in Ukraine and the events of February 2022, although the President had spoken about this earlier, and more than once. Alexander Lukashenko said that in February 2022, large-scale military exercises were held in Belarus with Russia. "The exercises have ended (they took place in the south, at the Brest and Baranovichi ranges). They began to withdraw (Russian. — Note) troops. Gomel, in the south (Belarus. — Note). Somewhere by plane, but mostly by rail. It's right practically on the border with Ukraine. At some point, we turned south — to the right," he noted. "And they entered Ukraine during this withdrawal."
"And the troops were from the Eastern District — from the east of Russia. I say: "Why did Russian troops go through Kiev to the east of Russia, why did Putin withdraw them through Kiev to Russia — this is a question for Zelensky and Putin," the Belarusian leader said.
The Head of State explained that when planning such serious military operations, the number of informed people was minimal, and he was not among them. "If an operation begins, several people in the General Staff know when and by what forces. Yes, a plan can be developed in advance. And it is being developed in advance. But only they know this moment," the President remarked. — No one but a few people could have been privy to these plans. Therefore, in terms of the fact that I was not informed there and so on, I reacted calmly to this. Moreover, this is not a joint operation. If the general staffs were working on some kind of operation together, it would be another matter."
Alexander Lukashenko drew attention to the fact that in February 2022, even before the start of the conflict, the situation in Donbas seriously worsened, which is why Russia even organized the evacuation of civilians by buses. And the President of Belarus, while on a visit to Russia and communicating with President Vladimir Putin, was aware of what was happening. According to the President of Belarus, Vladimir Putin then had concerns about the aggressive actions of the West. "For some reason, he was afraid that he might be stabbed in the back from the West. He didn't talk about it (about plans to start his own. — Note). But he says: now, if suddenly in Ukraine, Donbass is there and so on, they can stab in the back. I say, don't worry about it, it's my area of responsibility, I won't let the Russians shoot me in the back. And I have said this publicly, frankly," Alexander Lukashenko reminded.
According to him, at that time there was no premonition that all this would result in such a serious confrontation. Although the Americans informed Ukraine in advance about what could happen in February 2022. "They warned Ukrainians in detail during the week, I remember that, they warned them. But they didn't believe it, or they believed it a little. We didn't believe at all," the President said.
On the position of Belarus and the assistance of Russia and Ukraine
It is well known that from the very beginning of the conflict, the position of Belarus and its leader on this issue has remained unchanged — it is necessary to sit down at the negotiating table and find peaceful ways to resolve it. For its part, Belarus has made every effort to make this happen and continues to insist on a return to dialogue. Unfortunately, the hot phase of the conflict is still ongoing. But even in such a situation, the warring parties retain channels for communication.
"Naturally, certain negotiations are underway. I am sure that on one side and on the other, these are the special services. And the military and civilians are getting involved... Deputies got involved, commissioners for human rights, children's rights, and so on," the President said. — Technical negotiations in this regard are taking place on the territory of Belarus, under my control. After all, Ukrainians are close to me, Russians are close to me. These are native people. I want everything to be in order here. And where they can't meet each other, Belarusians work between them."
In this part, the Head of State spoke about the role of the Belarusian side in carrying out the exchange of bodies of the dead between Russia and Ukraine. Since the exchange was large-scale, the Ukrainian side requested to organize it through Belarus by rail, which they had previously blown up themselves, fearing any threats. "I say: okay, we are ready by rail, let them rebuild. They restored the railway that was blown up. But the condition was set: only Belarusians. The train is being transported to Ukraine and from Ukraine to Belarus, and then to Russia, wherever," Alexander Lukashenko said.
About the events in the Kursk region of Russia
The journalist recalled that in August 2024, Ukraine entered the territory of the Kursk region of Russia. In this regard, he asked why Belarus did not support its ally, because the countries are bound by obligations in the military sphere, for example, by the treaty on security guarantees within the framework of the Union State.
"You know, this is not an attack by Ukraine on Russia. Maybe that's how you see it. There is a war going on, there has been a clash. There are battles going on, and as a result of these battles, some go there, others come here. Besides, we were well aware of the situation: there was no need for us to participate there," Alexander Lukashenko said. — I knew exactly how the Russians would act when liberating the Kursk region. Putin informed me about this. I knew that there would be an operation and what forces would be involved. Therefore, it is out of the question for us to participate in the battle... This is not an attack. It was a fight. As a result of this battle, using certain bottlenecks, they (Ukrainians. They discovered this gap and entered the Kursk region in large numbers."
"Strategically, Putin was right. I didn't believe him at the time, that it was a mistake from a military point of view, because they (Ukraine. — Note.) Huge forces were thrown there. And so it was. Moreover, the best forces, prepared. They went in there. Now they are almost all destroyed. They did not achieve a result and other sections of the front were exposed," the President stated.
He also added that if Belarus had been involved in the fighting, it would have had completely different political and military consequences.
"Russia understands perfectly well, and we all the more understand that if we get involved in this conflict openly, we will have more problems. Russia understands that it will be difficult for us to hold this border, given that not only Ukrainians will fight against us. This will be a reason for the introduction of NATO troops into Ukraine. Under the guise of mercenaries, people will go there in huge numbers: Germans, French, British and others, Poles — this is a fact. And we will have to wage war here against the NATO troops already. We understand this perfectly well," the Head of State emphasized. — Go ahead. Missiles will be fired at Belarus. It's right next door. We understand that. And the Russians understand that."
According to Alexander Lukashenko, this issue does not even have to be discussed with the Russian leadership, since both the President and the military understand this.
"And by the way, the head of the CIA came to visit us, Burns. And I told him straight out that we are not going to fight or cross the border, but we are helping the Russians here," the President said. — His main question was whether Belarus would get involved in this conflict, borders, and so on. I say, "Listen, we don't even have such a conversation with Russia." But, I say, we can do it here, we are doing it. Of course, the Americans knew about it. We didn't hide it. We trained people. I say, "And you're training Ukrainians. And not only. You train pilots. The British, the Germans, and others.“ "Yes, we are cooking. Okay," he says, "we're not making any further claims. But you're not going to fight across the border with Ukraine, are you?“ I say, "No, we don't have such plans." I had a conversation like this with Burns. This is our position."
The consequences of the mobilization of Belarus and Russia for the West
Alexander Lukashenko told in an interview how the mobilization of resources of Russia and Belarus is dangerous for the West and Ukraine.
"War is always about mobilization. Whether we want it or not— this is the mobilization of people, the mobilization of all forces. It's a strain. We are not participants in this conflict. We didn't mobilize or overexert ourselves. But this is a great danger that your Trump underestimates, and America first of all. There is a great danger that you will lead us to the point where we will be forced to mobilize as a belligerent," Alexander Lukashenko said.
The Belarusian leader cited the example of the Second World War. When the entire Soviet Union mobilized, the outcome of the war was predetermined.
According to the President, Russia and Belarus have enough resources to mobilize. During the period of combat operations, this is primarily a military-industrial complex. "We have enough of this stuff, and we can do a lot. Yes, to some extent, you may have more advanced missiles or something else. But what we have is enough to wage a modern war in Ukraine, that's for sure," Alexander Lukashenko remarked. — For us to be on our knees, this does not exist and will never happen. You can bring Russia and me to mobilization. We don't need to be forced to mobilize. That's 150 million people. We don't need them to mobilize."
At the same time, the Head of State drew attention to the fact that not only the economy can mobilize, but also people's consciousness, which is much more important. "If that happens— that's it. That's when it smacks of more than just the conflict in Ukraine. Because we've been harnessing for a long time, but if we've already harnessed, we're going fast. Don't bring it up to this. That's why, when we discussed this topic, I told the Americans: guys, let's come to an agreement now, let's stop playing tricks, let's do it (and you Americans can push the process towards this) so that we can sit down and agree not only on a truce, but on peace," the Belarusian leader stressed.
"I see the behavior of Volodya Zelensky. I don't believe he's such a courageous hero. He has somewhere to run to. And where will Ukrainians run to if we mobilize? Now is the moment and the situation is such that it can turn in any direction. And if it turns towards the intensification of Russia's actions at the front? It's already moving slowly, you know that," the President of Belarus stated.
About the Belarusian-Russian Zapad exercises
During the interview, the topic of the Zapad-2025 joint exercises with Russia was also raised and the reasons why it was decided to change the initial plan and move the main maneuvers deep into the territory of Belarus, away from the western borders.
The President recalled that after reports of plans by Belarus and Russia to hold these exercises, there was a lot of hype, most of all in Poland and the Baltic states. To a lesser extent, from Ukraine, because they know that the border is mined and it is impossible to enter Ukraine from this territory. "We will never allow, and it was stated on my part, that we will attack Kiev today and so on. Ukrainians don't believe it. Poles, Lithuanians, Latvians — they are getting mad, they are warning: here, the Suwalki corridor will pass to Kaliningrad, the Baltic Sea will be cut off, three NATO countries will be captured, and so on," the Head of State noted.
"I have publicly told you that by withdrawing troops (this was my order) into the interior of the country, we had one goal in mind — not to give you the opportunity to accuse us of preparing to cut the Suwalki corridor, to capture the three Baltic republics at the first stage, and then Poland. This is complete stupidity," Alexander Lukashenko pointed out.
"We have proved to everyone that we are not going to attack there and that we will conduct exercises in the center, deep in Belarus. In order not to give you a reason to continue reproaching us for the fact that we are going to attack at least the countries of the Eastern European Union — Poland, the Baltic States, and even more so Ukraine. This is the main thing," the Head of State explained once again.
When asked whether Belarus' decision to move the exercises inland was "sensitive" for Russia, the President replied: "There wasn't even a discussion. Well, they took me away and took me away."
About nuclear weapons and unacceptable damage
The Head of State noted that Russian partners were making a significant contribution to strengthening Belarus' defense capability. Alexander Lukashenko explained that Russia understands the strategic importance of Belarus for ensuring its own national security, and therefore provides it with its support in this matter.
"I'll be absolutely honest. When we helped Russia a lot (what can I say — with ammunition and so on), I said to my older brother, my friend: "You know, I understand all this, the situation is like this — and the Poles are mad there, and others. I need strong arguments.“ "Which ones?“ I say, "We need to return nuclear weapons to Belarus." It's been returned. Do you think that someone will start a war against a nuclear country? You know, no matter how much you rage against North Korea, you are not starting a war against it," the President noted.
Answering a clarifying question from a journalist about the nuclear doctrine of Belarus, Alexander Lukashenko said that he had signed a decree regulating the handling of nuclear weapons. "It is in the safes of those who should have it. We clearly understand and imagine what it is, how to do it. The goals have been defined," the Head of State added.
"Russia has enough forces to strengthen us. We are preparing for war. I said that frankly.: We prepare for war every day, every month, in order to avoid it," the Belarusian leader said. — We know what to do. We have learned from all the recent wars. Our concept is based on the fact that we are ready to inflict unacceptable damage on Poland, Lithuania, Latvia there, Estonia — who will fight against us. Unacceptable damage. I just described one of the elements to you. Therefore, they understand that in this case, we may not win this war, but we will fill our faces well. And Russia, to the extent that we need today, is helping and will help as an ally."
Alexander Lukashenko recalled that by the end of the year Belarus will have the Oreshnik missile system, which can carry a nuclear warhead. The first positions where it will be placed have already been determined.
"Neither Putin nor I want to use nuclear weapons, no one wants to. We're not suicidal. But let your satellites, your friends, and your allies understand this too, and I have openly said that if anyone crosses our border, we will respond immediately with all the weapons we have. This is not intimidation, I'm just warning you," the President stressed.
About his successor and the new presidential term
Personal topics were also touched upon during the interview. The journalist noted that the youngest son of the Head of State, Nikolai, is often described in the Western media as Alexander Lukashenko's successor to the presidency.
"No, he's not the successor. I knew you wanted to ask. No, no, no. If you ask him, you can offend him so much with this," the Head of State said.
Alexander Lukashenko admitted that the next President of Belarus may be a man who will pursue a slightly different policy. "Just don't let him break anything right away, but the way I did, relying on the shoulders of the strong, on what I have, I calmly evolutionarily developed the country so that there would not be this revolutionary breakdown. And if he convinces society that it is necessary to go to some other state, for God's sake," the President said.
The Head of state also answered the question of whether he plans to run for a new presidential term: "No, I'm not planning now, I'm not planning anymore. The only thing I can afford is somewhere for myself, I didn't say that either.: Well, listen, if Trump is 80 soon and he looks decent..."
About the line of demarcation between Ukraine and Russia
Returning to the topic of the peaceful settlement of the situation in Ukraine, the journalist asked the Belarusian leader what, in his opinion, the line of demarcation between Ukraine and Russia might look like in the future. According to Alexander Lukashenko, it will depend on how the parties to the conflict agree. "We can agree that there will be a demilitarized (and in fact correctly militarized) zone on one side and on the other — a kilometer, two or five. It's a horror," the President said.
"It's a horror. The dead zone is huge," the correspondent agreed.
"Yes, the dead zone. But I hope it doesn't come to that. There will be a regular border. Yes, there is heavy security on both sides. But you can work in this area. After all, we had a border zone now and in Soviet times. Entry was prohibited there. And if allowed, then with a certain pass, permission, and so on. But people lived there," Alexander Lukashenko reminded. — Therefore, it is a matter of agreements. And then, life will adjust. And then the borders can be removed."
At the same time, the President of Belarus is confident that Vladimir Putin will agree faster than Vladimir Zelensky to improve the lives of people in the border region: "He is stronger, more powerful."
The Belarusian head of state also noted that if Zelensky had listened to him at the time, Ukraine would not have lost such territories.
"If it is reasonable to negotiate and make concessions to Russia, and Russia to make concessions to Ukraine (it is necessary to determine these issues and make mutual concessions), Russia will never fight with Ukraine again. Never," Alexander Lukashenko is convinced.
He also commented on the opinion that Russia is preparing for war with NATO, wants to attack the Baltic states and Poland. "This is complete stupidity. Believe me, there is no such thing. I know that for sure. Putin and the Russian military and political leadership do not have such goals - to fight against NATO. That would be stupid. In the foreseeable future, for sure. Well, if you don't do something stupid... We have enough here," the President stressed.
At the same time, he did not rule out that the situation at the front would change in such a way that the border would have to be drawn along the Dnieper River, which means Kiev could remain on the Russian side. "That's what you have to fear, that you may lose the whole of Ukraine. In general, it can be divided: Hungary will take a piece, Poland is already rubbing its hands to grab Western Ukraine, and so on. And there will be some kind of stripe," Alexander Lukashenko added.
"Russia will not be defeated. Defeat will cost us all very dearly. You first of all. Including people overseas. Therefore, this nuclear country has the first place in terms of nuclear reserves. There will be no defeat. It won't happen! But Ukraine may be defeated. Don't let that happen. Let's come to an agreement now," the Belarusian leader urged.
On the negotiations between Russia, the United States and Ukraine
Alexander Lukashenko recalled that when the first negotiations on resolving the crisis in Ukraine were held in Minsk, he had already talked about the need to involve the Americans in this, otherwise there would be no point. However, neither Donald Trump during his first term nor Joe Biden joined the negotiations.
The President of Belarus also considers the current ultimatum approach of the American side inappropriate. Moreover, Alexander Lukashenko is not sure that this is not a performance by the United States.
"That's not how it's done: 'I came, I said, I gave you 50 days.' It's not Iran that just dropped three bombs and then reported back: "That's it, I won't do it anymore. Come on, guys, let's put up.“ We need to meet, we need to talk," the Head of State stressed. — During these 50 days, everything must be done so that: the first step is not to fly missiles and drones; the second step is to come to 50 days to stop shooting altogether. Stop shooting, stop firing, and negotiate a final peace. Either demilitarization will be there, or it will be postponed. The devil knows what kind of war it is, but people don't want to die."
According to him, the Russian President may agree, for example, to an air truce, but Ukraine must take this step at the same time.
"Get the three of you together somewhere. Trump, Putin — come to an agreement on the first day and invite Zelensky. On the first day, we will talk about Russian-American relations, and on the second — about this issue. Invite Zelensky, put it on the table: here is an air truce," Alexander Lukashenko said.
The journalist recalled that Vladimir Zelensky invited Vladimir Putin to talks in Saudi Arabia, but the Russian President ignored this invitation. Alexander Lukashenko replied that he had discussed this issue with his Russian counterpart and would have done the same in his place.
"Frankly, when Putin asked me, 'What would you do?I say, "Volodya, you have nothing to do there." That was my opinion. It looked, you know, like some kind of posturing. Arrived: "I'm waiting for you here, come on, come to the carpet, Trump is here somewhere." That's not how politics works. And Putin will never do that. This is the case when he should never have done it. And I supported him then, I tell you sincerely. I told him, "That's right, you have nothing to do there." What kind of posturing is this?" — The Head of State asked.
"Let's decide in advance: for example, the hero city of Minsk, Istanbul, Geneva, we have decided — this meeting will be held in a month. The first day is the American—Russian relations, for example, we are discussing. On the second day, if we come to an agreement on a draft document of some kind, we invite Zelensky, Lukashenko, Petrov, Sidorov. It will look decent. This is in advance. And then, like a kid, he jumped out of the plane: "I'm waiting for Putin." What are you? Just in case, this is the President of a huge nuclear power, on a par with the United States of America," Alexander Lukashenko remarked.
The President is convinced that Vladimir Putin, like the Russian society, wants peace and is ready for negotiations: "Treat him with respect. This is not a quality of his personal character. This is a quality of our character, as they say, of the Russian world, Slavs, and so on. And Americans, too. Imagine Trump in Putin's place. Putin is somewhere out there roaming the Middle East, and some Zelensky, whom you scolded for no clear reason and how you did it in the Oval Office, called Trump... Or he didn't call, but transmitted through the media: "I'm sitting here, waiting for one and the other. And, Trump, you come.“ Listen, after that, he would not have supplied a single machine gun to Ukraine because of this humiliation."
About a possible meeting between Putin, Trump and Zelensky
During a conversation with a journalist, Alexander Lukashenko confirmed his readiness to organize a trilateral meeting of Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump and Vladimir Zelensky, if necessary. At the same time, the President stressed that such negotiations should not be approached spontaneously, they need to be worked out and prepared in advance.
He admitted that such negotiations could be organized in Minsk. According to Alexander Lukashenko, Vladimir Putin would love to meet with Donald Trump in the Belarusian capital. The American leader will also be pleased with the meeting, the Head of State is convinced.
"Let's take small steps. And "50 days, if you don't do it, we will do it" — listen, this is not serious," the Head of State believes.
The journalist expressed doubt that the meeting could be organized so easily before the cease-fire.
"That's right, we need to prepare it in advance," Alexander Lukashenko replied. — We need to prepare this visit. If you want, I'll do it. The American part, the Russian part. I'm ready to take it on, to prepare for this meeting. In the name of peace. And so let's start cooking — see how Zelensky will act. He will balk: "I'm totally against it!"
The Time correspondent also agreed that Vladimir Zelensky would not come to Minsk for negotiations.
However, the President noticed: "What does Minsk mean to him? Minsk wishes him well more than anywhere else."
The Head of State recalled that the Belarusian side is currently involved in organizing exchanges of prisoners and bodies of the dead between Russia and Ukraine. Alpha special forces soldiers are involved in this, who literally carry the bodies in their arms.
"What's wrong with him in relation to Belarus? On the contrary, Belarus should be involved in this process," Alexander Lukashenko stressed.
In his opinion, European partners should not be counted on in these matters.: They have already shown their true colors by once imposing restrictions on Ukrainian grain exports. "Trump is right to tilt this Europe (just so it's not a spectacle). And Trump can do a lot. He would have won the midterm elections and would have been the new President. If not him, then J.D. Vance. A decent man, I like him," the Head of State said.
The president also drew attention to certain distortions in the American media, saying that Putin is bad, Zelensky is good, and Trump is even better.
"Let's be objective. Is Trump a talker? Chatterbox. Example: says one thing in the morning, does another in the evening. There is this. There are no results yet. He starts waving a saber at the world like a policeman. If you take the lead, carry it out. And leadership is about preventing collisions and wars," the Head of State noted.
"Objectively speaking, why don't you also blame Putin for his actions and aggression?" — the journalist asked.
"I also blame Putin. Just because I'm not telling you doesn't mean I'm not reproaching you," Alexander Lukashenko said. — And Putin has certain mistakes. I'm sure he regrets a lot of things, a lot of things. But realities are realities, and let's proceed from these realities. Neither I, nor you, nor Putin, nor Trump — we are not eternal. Everything will change literally in the next two five-year plans, in the next 10 years. But let's solve the problem based on the realities today."
